Episode 38: Under the Shroud

October 17th, 2019
Hosted by Brian Birnbaum
Guests: Iam Humphrey
Produced by Katie Rainey
Transcript by Jon Kay
Podcast Assistant: Dylan Thomas

Welcome to the 38th episode of the Animal Riot Podcast, brought to you by fill in future sponsor (we’re keeping it cool like Facebook did back when it was cool). Today we’ve got Ian Humphrey in the box, discussing his podcast noir-drama, Under the Shroud, which follows Corin—the half-demon junkie cab driver. Yes, it’s exactly as f***ing wild and wondrous as it sounds. But we also get an inside look at the experiences that inspired Ian to write the show. Oh, and while you’re listening, don’t forget to hit up Corin’s patreon—he’s got a raging habit to support.

>> Brian: Welcome to the 38th episode of the Animal Riot Podcast, brought to you by Animal Riot Press, a literary press for books that matter. I'm your host, Brian Birnbaum. We're here today with Ian Humphrey, who runs Under The Shroud, which is a very intense podcast drama that's pretty difficult to qualify simply. So I'll just lift the words of Ian himself in the About Page on the site. The continuing stories Under the Shroud is of the beset cab driver taken noir tone in a horror setting... I would say like slash fantasy, which you cite elsewhere. Corin only has two goals: stay high and stay alive. God bless. And in that order, Life never does  seem to work that way though. He drives nights of an arcane order, believers in a very much alive and degenerate Jesus Christ, white supremacists with more control than you'd think and characters that can never come out in the vanilla world. 

So I'll say that this episode's brand of fuckery is brought to you by mud blood demon junkies. That's how I qualify, Corin. But yes, so I'll just say that I've been burning through a few these episodes I've gotten like I would say, like 2/3 of the way through. And then I skipped to the withdrawal episode cause I know you're kind of, so to speak, it and for me to get there. And it's pretty crazy. It's wild and the production is phenomenal. I'll just say that, like right up front. It's amazing. It's just so imaginative, like I mean you, you almost use this Harry Potter esque division of types of species. Or like Lord of the Rings ish, I guess you could say. But it like meets Sin City, you know? But it's totally unique. It's its own thing. But yeah, that's enough of my description. Let's talk about you know how you came up with this. What this is to you and how you came up with it.

>> Ian: Well, first off, hello, I'm Ian and it's a pleasure to meet all of you folks. There's a fair amount of Lord of the Rings meets Lord of the Flies going on in the societal landscape of the thing. Much of the divisions that you'll find have have a lot of basis in our current political landscape, but also the way that that our current political landscape has flashed on down the years. Yeah, I guess I'll say that's all say about that for now. The inspiration for the world was more about frankly, bad acid trips from my youth. One in particular.

>> Brian: I love it.

>> Ian: Right? There was a mushroom trip that I went on that I thought had finished because I was at a solid six for four to five hours, I guess. About four or five hours. I was on my way home, and I have the parent had was giving me a ride to the train station. They did not know that I was tripping my nuts off. And pretty much as soon as I pulled into the train station, everything went much weirder. And there were dragons hiding in shadows, et cetera, et cetera. And it was this struggle to get home and seeing monsters in the alleyways. But also knowing that those monsters were not, you know, didn't have any malicious intent towards me necessarily. They just were were creatures of darkness and that there was a lot of a sense of Narnia that even if the horrible things were there, that I was seeing that it was my responsibility to engage them. Because if you refuse the call to adventure, what kind of jackass are you? So that was the beginning of where this world was born. That and I was raised in a hippie commune that was run primarily by clothing optional feminists off the grid. So life was already a bit of a fantasy journey pretty much from the onset.

>> Brian: What was your option? What was your option? Clothes or no clothes?

>> Ian: That depends. I tended towards clothes or so than the younger kids that the see I tended to wear things, but that also depended on the occasion there. I didn't have any other kids who were really my age that I was very close friends with most of the time. And in all the pictures, Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer were at least wearing overalls. So I figured that was a good platform to start from, okay? And it had that sort of this... this was in Baltimore County and the wilderness, as I thought it had the Mark Twain motif that I had to lay into. So yeah, lots of straw hats.

>> Brian: This commune was in Baltimore County?

>> Ian: Yeah, it was. Actually gets, like, a three minute drive from Interstate 83 which bisects not only all of Baltimore County and Baltimore City. And it was the last exit before you hit the Mason Dixon line was our exit. So, technically speaking, we were not far from civilization at all. But we were entrenched deep enough in this valley. Most of the buildings were built for the Declaration of Independence was signed. And again society was I don't want a barbaric because nobody was eating anybody. But it was different enough from our very few trips to the gas station or Kmart that we definitely felt like we were off the grid.

>> Brian: Very interesting. We need to come back to this because, you know, I was gonna, you know, when I said let's talk about your journey from Baltimore to Austin where you live now, I did not know we were gonna go back to the commune.

>> Ian: Well, you know, it always starts there. And I'm not saying this to toot my own horn, but you just don't hear a lot about commune kids. Much like sort of the realities of the Amish where they have... I don't remember the names of any of these rituals, but I know if they have a thing where they're like, hey, go wild and the bulk of them are allowed to... All of them are released for a year. And then the bulk of them come back.

>> Brian: Rumspringa.

>> Ian: Right, Thank you. I think that happens with a lot of sort of weirdo commune kids is that they go out in the world and they come back home. And I did not make that choice. Or they, you know, don't necessarily enjoy the limelight. Whereas I am an attention whore, attention hog, and all of the above in great levels.

>> Brian: Yeah, I was going to say I mean two things that I mean, the commune shit is... We actually had a reader a couple weeks ago who read some poems about growing up in the commune. But I can also relate to the thinking the trip is done when, in fact, because I had taken mushrooms once it like one or two in the morning with a friend, and we had, like, 8 a.m. flight from Seattle back to Baltimore or whatever. I don't know if his BWI or Reagan or whatever.

>> Ian: Let's call it BWI for old times sake.

>> Brian: Yeah, let's keep in the Baltimore area. So, yeah, there must be something about mass transportation areas or some sort of like civilized modes of transportation where you just project your horrors because, yeah, when I got to the airport, things were not done.

>> Ian: Oh, yeah? Well, you know, the police presence, which I'm very pleased about, it's a great idea. But when it's when they're looking at you and they're concerned, you're like, Well, you know, maybe you should be. That can amplify things pretty quickly.

>> Brian: Yeah, totally. I blame tsa, but yes. You saw all this shit, But then years later, you come up with this show. Is that correct?

>> Ian: Yeah, There were a series of sort of literary or influential stepping stones along the way to the idea of using my least favorite term and the term that I live in urban fantasy.

>> Brian: Yeah, you know, it's funny. I refrained from using that phrase. It felt a little too generic.

>> Ian: It's weird because it really is very appropriate in general to my work, because urban fantasy frequently is speaking to noir. And the Shroud is nothing else if not noir. But it also... it can fall into these very easy tropes. The way I think of it is starting with Jim Butcher, who was one of the guys who exploded the genre in an adult capacity with his Dresden Files novels. He's amazing. I can't say enough great things about him, but he leaned really hard in the Raymond Chandler aesthetic. This idea that the way that it's Marlowe, right? For Chandler? A lot of people tended to lean really hard on the Philip Marlowe aesthetic, which Butcher himself chose initially as a joke, and that is a little limiting to what noir can be. We oftentimes think of noir as the detective story, but that's actually really doesn't capture a whole lot off the new our library that's out there. And that's why I wanted, you know, I was creating this show. I wanted to stick with my protagonist, Corin Black, the hapless half demon of Baltimore, the devil's runt, as they call him, that he wasn't going to be solving mysteries or cases. But he was gonna be directly involved with them. How? He's a cab driver. And a lot of the early thinking for the show was okay. The formula is Corin needs money to get high. He's struggling with his addiction. We'll put him in the cab. He's never having a good day. That's just the nature of the beast when you're struggling with addiction and frequently the nature of the beast, when you're struggling with your job.

>> Brian: Yeah, yeah, and far from solving shit, he's more. He's often more of a pawn, or like something that's being... that lacks agency. Yeah, like fucked around by his boss and random like nationalists, editorials, white nationalist editorials that are secretly running guns and this and that.

>> Ian: Yeah. All sorts of fun shit. And so he's so the set up against he's having this... He's just having a day, which is bad because it's that's life. And then you put something relatively monstrous in the car with him and you make it worse. And that's I mean, that is the basic formula for the show. I vary from that, a fair amount. But that, right at its core, it fits in that old, that old saying about like, what is the story? You have a character. You put him in a tree, you throw rocks at him, you get rocks at him and you get him out of the tree.

>> Brian: It's really funny. I just brought that up on a previous podcast.

>> Ian: Really?

>> Brian: Nabokov said that.

>> Ian: It's one of those great truisms. What I liked about using Corin for this was that the process of getting him out of the tree would be basic survival. But then he also you know both needs to be a sympathetic character for the audience to care, and also I want to like him, and has some semi autobiographical notes so I want to like me. And what I realized was that for him, it was going to be about by the end of the episode, he has found some small way to care. And as often as possible toe affect some small level of positive change.

>> Brian: That reminds me a lot of... Have you Have you ever seen The Wire?

>> Ian: Yes. (laughter) I'm very familiar.

>> Brian: Yeah, because you know, I'm gonna tell you a secret right now. That's not a secret anymore, because it's going out to everyone who's gonna listen, but exciting. I just started watching that for the first time.

>> Ian: You're in for a treat.

>> Brian: Yeah, it's incredible. But that kind of reminds me of Bubbles, right? Like cause Bubbles is like this junkie, But like every time he, like he does still have, like, that modicum of like conscience left enough to at least, like, try and save his friend or whatever.

>> Ian: Yeah, Bubbles was a huge influence on the character. I think it's safe to say I mean, like, as we all, as all of us who are writers know, you know, you never get influence from just one place. Every character, plot, every story is an amalgamation of things. Platitudes aside, whatever of corn is not me is probably a little bit of Bubbles.

>> Brian: How did you make the decision to make him a junkie? Dope is like a pretty I mean, it's a prevalent drug in Baltimore. Baltimore's, like, arguably the heroin capital of the world. Like in a lot of ways, maybe not like in totality but maybe per capita or something like that, You know what I mean? Is it mainly that or like, what was? What was the decision? That like, Yeah, Like what? Why, why? Why? Dope? Why not coke? Why not this? Why not? I don't know any number of things. You know, I thought a lot about it because that I've had made the conscious decision to be fairly forthright in this show about this uppers is where my experience lies. I've had some trouble with that in my past, and I did not want to use that for this character. I didn't like the idea of him having this constant tripping over himself aggression. And there's a couple levels to that one was just purely for audio. Having somebody who's all sped up is funny for a little while. And then it's not so funny anymore. It becomes obnoxious to the ear. There was also, but what I liked about using downers for Corin was that it has where uppers have a sense of I'm trying to get out of the hole I'm in by doing all these crazy things. Downers have seemed to me in my limited experience with downers, but my great experience with watching others on them, not great, positive, extensive. There's a little more of being stuck in one place and more oven on awareness of that and sort of lounging into it. I also have played with it a fair amount within the magic of the universe. Technically speaking, what Corin is on the drug is called dash, which is a sly reference to Daschle Hammett.

>> Brian: Oh interesting.

>> Ian: Sneaking in the war parentage there. Uh, technically, dash is a speedball with magic in it. It is a little bit of a lot of dope, little bit of coke and a fair amount of this magical water of life aqua vitae liquid that is in the mix.

>> Brian: Mana

>> Ian: Yeah, man. Exactly. he nods out occasionally. He's always a little, you know, tired. But it keeps him alert enough that he could engage in the story and in the adventure. Plus, if I'm being real, that's always just a fun combination.

>> Brian: Yeah, I mean if only our speed balls had magic in them than we'd all.

>> Ian: Or we'd be far worse cooked off. That was what that decision was about. I recently when I can put the character, it had the revelation that a lot of my stories lacked a sense of hope. Part of that was really just I, generally speaking, pretty positive guy. I think that life is largely going to go well and I rein back in on that as a writer. I don't want to come off as too sunshiny. And that has got me into the habit of making everything pretty dark and dismal. And I liked the idea that he has this consistent battle to fight. But he does see a light at the end of the tunnel, and that had something to do with my addiction choices for him.

>> Brian: Yeah, yeah, and which is, like another like, kind of almost fantastical element. Because, you know, you know, giving this person. I don't know that there's there's the magic in the world because someone who's speed balling is inevitably going to get to a place where that Hope is quickly sort like starting to shut off. But the way that your episodes work, I really like because it's like not, it doesn't resemble law and order in any sense. But every episode is a new problem. You know what I mean?

>> Ian: Yeah.

>> Brian: And so, like, it's like you do. You do a good job of, like, you know, creating your own logic and the story where it's like, Okay, he's like getting off every single episode. And he's in this  hole. But it's kind of like Plateau in a away, you know, or like he's in that valley. Like where it's just like it's kind of just fucked. But he's still able to kind of navigate how do I get out of this particular situation I'm in. And have a conscience slash like empathy for certain people that I am engaged with on that note. Do you have, like, a favorite episode? I don't know. It's kind of hard to ask someone who's creating.

>> Ian: No, not at all. I have two Favorite episodes. One was relatively early on in the show. It's the episode titled True Believers, which, yeah, I'll just talk about that for a second. True Believers was a concept that I came up with relatively early in the creation of this world. The idea that Jesus H Christ is regularly dying and resurrecting and that he's in a bad place psychologically and has been for some time. I liked the idea that if you were like every now and then, you end up in one of these conversations were something like, Oh, well, what if Morrison or Hendrix or Joplin hadn't died? Imagine the work they could be making today, and then somebody will inevitably say Yeah, but what if they just became this horrible tragedy story? Because those guys didn't die because things were going well and they sort of burned out. I'm not saying I don't really speak much in this story to Jesus as he existed in the book. What I do speak to is the idea that if you were stuck for 2000 years trying to be as optimistic about humanity as he is in the source material, you'd probably get tired, too. So anyway, so Jesus is going through a rough patch and there is a church that is dedicated to him. The true believers and their entire philosophy cooks down to yes, Jesus is real. Yes, he's a bit of a mess right now, but it's okay. He's going to get better, which, obviously, from what we've been talking about with Corin is that's my central philosophy of protagonists at this point.

>> Brian: Yeah.

>> Ian: So anyway, so I like the idea of putting Corin in the car with one of these true believers. She's a goofy character. She's a fun character. I'm not going to say too terribly much about it because I want you all to listen and enjoy The Shroud with me.

>> Brian: But I will say that I look forward to all of you joining us, but yeah, one. On that note, I do want to I do want to say that one of my favorite parts of the show is the Patreon injections. It's like it's part. It's part of the world, you know? It's like Corin needs it, not Ian. Corin needs the Patreon contributions. So it's really interesting with that is that actually has not gone over as well as I would have helped.

>> Ian: But I stand by the fact that it was the coolest idea to start the show. I was having one of those, you know, author evenings where I'm trying to sleep but the ideas were ticking around and I can't quite roll over, and I can't shut the idea machine up. And then that idea came to me like, Oh, shit, what if I could use the characters drug addiction to allow him to directly beg the audience for money?

>> Brian: Yeah, that's beautiful. And you said not going over well, like what exactly? Like, what is that blowback or, What is it?

>> Ian: There's not blow back and a lot of people really love it. I don't want to spare lives. But we all have hard lives, and it's hard to come up with money. And frankly, the Internet could be difficult to understand. Understanding how PAtreon works is tough, so I'm not complaining. But I have had people who are not Patreon subscribers come up to me and say, Look out of the clear blue sky at my coffee shop Somebody's heard about the show from a friend and they see me and they come out on The first thing they'll say is seven like six or seven times. Hey, I love your show and I love that The character is begging for money for Patreon subscriptions right in the material. That's great. I'll go cool. Have you signed up? And then they're like eh, but the conversation's over/

>> Brian: Yeah, yeah, it's like everyone everyone wants to go over and, ah, you know, help out the Syrians. But like, is anyone actually going to do it? I totally get it. It's like it's like asking people to go above and beyond. But like I do love the metaphor for like actually you know, the person on the subway, what they're had out, who just needs money for a fucking 40 ounce or like their next bag, a dope or whatever. And it's like who's gonna ante up? So it sounds like it is going over very well. It is a story of people aren't. People don't want to feed the addiction. It is. It's amazing. I love it

>> Ian: There was a realization that I had with the character over time, as happens when you're living in the brain of a person who doesn't exist. Over time when I started to realize is that his motivation for making the show started to change. Initially in the pilot, he sets out to just, you know Oh, it's a quick way to make a buck they thinks might work And then I won't give away the plot line of the pilot. But something tragic and kind of disastrous and sad happens, and he decides well, it's also got to be about telling the stories of people under the shroud. But also speak is speaking up for the little guy and making sure that the little guy's tragic story is heard. And then this wonderful thing happened over time, and I really I am tearing up right now just thinking about it. I started to connect with some of the fans of the show through discord channels and started having a real relationship with some of these people and this weird thing where, like you've never seen a human, this human being before. But and you don't even know the real name because you know them by their like, video game handle. And then you start to really, really care about these people in a profound way.

And it was when I was writing Withdrawal Episode 11 which I won't say much about, because it is a pretty significant plot device. It gets him into this into that predicament. But you can guess that he's going through some shit if it's called withdrawal. And I realized as I was writing it, that his motivation was no longer really, I mean, he kept he's gotta keep begging for the money and he's going to keep speaking up for the little guy, but that the real reason for was that he had this relationship with the audience, and I sort of maintain at least at the moment that there, that's a one sided conversation, that he's telling his stories to these people. But he can see the metrics that the audience, that there is an audience out there and they are listening and he misses them. He's had a distance from them, and that distance has an effect. And that, frankly, surprised me. It was just a very important realization, and I like that it built along with his begging for money. This new note.

>> Brian: Is that your other favorite episode? The withdrawal one?

>> Ian: It is, it is. And it's the one that the audience get seems to get most excited for a lot of times again. On these discord channels or on Twitter wherever where I'm trying to drum up, put it in front of folks. I'll mention it to somebody and they will say, Okay, it sounds kinda interesting and, you know, maybe listen, maybe they don't. Maybe they'll let me know if they start listening. But if they get to withdrawal and we have had any level of personal conversation, that's the point at which somebody reaches out and says, Hey, holy shit, this is pretty cool. Which obviously is a great feeling.

>> Brian: Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's like the reason we do it.

>> Ian: Well, yeah, that's that's the thing. And again, particular because that's the first time that he turns the audience and goes like, Hey, you know, I don't know if you guys were gonna hear this recording. Shit's gotten pretty bad, but I miss you guys and then to have that be the moment that the audience chooses to turn around and say, Hey, thank you for making this is a really nice nod to the character himself. Uh, it's pretty cool.

>> Brian: Yeah, so let's talk a little bit more... Okay, So before we move into your journey to Austin, let's talk a little bit more about how Yeah, I don't know. Do you want to start at the Commune? I mean, like, you know, it's funny cause we talked for the first time. It was like we were talking more about from Baltimore, and then where'd you go? Did you go to Phoenix or Albuquerque? Which one of those Southwestern.

>> Ian: Let's start with the journey out of Baltimore. Obviously this is a very different audience. Hello, audience. You're wonderful and you're different. But I recently had an interview that talked a lot about the commune days, and I've got other stories to tell. Gosh, golly.

>> Brian: Why don't you tell them where they can listen to that before we...

>> Ian: Oh sure. There's a wonderful show called Ignorance Was Bliss Sorry, hosted by Kate, and I'm now realizing I don't know how to pronounce her last name. I believe it's Wallinger who is one of my new heroes. She is recently coined the name She's our podcast, fairy godmother. But she does this wonderful show about It's just that your standard interview show, except that she has this incredible insight because she was a psychologist in a federal prison for a very long time, and that's going to give you some insight that's a little different than the average human experience. Then we had a wonderful conversation about the commune days and the psychological effects of that. It was a trip and I highly recommend going to listen to that episode. I don't remember which number it is, but I know that there's the concept of grace comes up in the title because Grace is very important to me.

>> Brian: Okay, Great. Yeah. Now, we just created a sort of sibling episode that we can lead up to this one, but Okay, yes. So let's let's start in Baltimore. You're out of the commune...

>> Ian: I'm out of the commune. The communes, long gone. I've already traveled a number tail end of my outlaw days where I'm no longer involved in criminal enterprise. And yes, I am leaving that vague. You are gonna have to find out more by following what I do. But outlaw days are really sort of trailing off. I had had a bar job as a bar back and bartender for a long time. I am gonna leave these details a little vague as well, but was no longer working there, largely having to do with going really deep into the bottle to help...

>> Brian: Damn man. We should we should it on this episode in 10 years. So you could have gotten like, statute of limitations, you know.

>> Ian:  I mean, most of the statute of limitations for my crimes are up. I tend to keep track of them there.

>> Brian: There we go. I love it. I love it doing your research.

>> Ian: I mean, well, there was There was a series of riot stories and more commercial drug business stories that I like to tell. And there were a couple of police officers who I was friendly with, and I never thought that they were going to rat me out, But just in case, I always made sure I knew which stories I could tell.

>> Brian: I see, I see. So I love the illusions here. It's all it's almost better than hearing the whole thing, You know?

>> Ian: I mean, 11 of these days, I'm gonna tell the riot stories because those are just... Well, there's just a laugh riot.

>> Brian: Yeah, we're gonna We're gonna have to have you back on. Then get to the meat of this matter.

>> Ian: I'll have to write something worthy of the riots stories so that we could talk about the reference point which... Yeah, I'm always hesitant about memoir. Anyway, so yes. I just lost my job. I've been unemployed for a fair amount of time. I don't honest to God, don't remember how I was putting together the money to pay rent. I wasn't partying as much. I had a sense that my upper days we're gonna have to end. And then there was one night in particular that I wanted to talk that I I've sort of been saving this story for this show. After our pre interview interview, there was a night where me and my old crew, and we used to call ourselves the Degenerates, we were up all night on things that make that easier. We were incredibly wasted. I was soberest driver, and there were four of us total in the car, and I was under the impression that we were giving the fourth kid, the one I knew the least, a ride home. Bear in mind we were a very, very tight knit crew in the way that people who do things who make mistakes all the time and have to have somebody who will forgive them in the morning and watch their back. That kind of community and proximity and, um and relatively diseased adoration was between all of us. Anyway, I'm not gonna say any of the names of the guys by will refer to the skinny one and the redhead one, and then there was the little guy. 

So I thought I was just giving the little guy a ride home. And then we were gonna be done for the evening. And as we were driving around, I realized that, like they had far too little of a sense of where little guy lived and there was a little odd. And then we were travelling deeper and deeper into the Baltimore City hood, which I'm sure you can imagine is a place that four guys who are tanked in my friend's, the head guy's car driving around in a very, very nice car. It was just a bad call. And then I realized that what we were doing was looking for heroin, and this was the one line that I, or one of the lines, that I wouldn't cross myself. And I got very upset and insistent.

>> Brian: How did you realize that That that we were not going to skinny kid's house, but We were going to find heroin?

>> Ian: When they started leaning out the window in addressing hookers, saying, Hey, you got the heroin?

>> Brian: Yeah. Not even not even saying Yo, Where the scag at?

>> Ian: No.

>> Brian: You got you got that China? You were just like, Where's the heroin?

>> Ian: Yes, it was pretty much exactly that. Like, awkward and silly. It's a sad story in a very dead story, But yeah, there was definitely this sense of, like, Jesus Christ. Like, have you guys even done this before? Like what? Come on, be professional. Yeah. And anyway, so they just started leaning out the window and ask. It was like, This is fucking first off. I don't wanna be around this substance. Second off, this is dumb as shit on I started to be pretty vocal about that. Was just like you guys are fucking idiots were driving back.

>> Brian: It is pretty much how you get robbed.

>> Ian: Oh, yeah. It's a great way to get robbed or get your shit kicked in and get a gun shoved in your face and God knows what else. And don't get me wrong. These guys have plenty of stories where I'm just as much of an idiot. Substantial line was just like, Nope. No dope for Humphrey. Uh, and I was very upset. Say, it's just that we drive back to my place. They could do what the fuck they wanted after that, but I was getting out of the car and yeah, they did not want to do that because that would have wasted I mean, we didn't really seriously... it would have taken us a solid 45 minutes just to find her way out of the hood. At that point again, I was drunk and driving, so I had very little high horse to stand on.

>> Brian: Right, Right.

>> Ian: But what about that point? The guy I was stopped at a stop sign is we're trying to figure out where to go to get home. The guy's popped out of the car, grabbed me and manhandled me into the trunk of the car. I didn't put up too terribly much of a fight. I saw it was happening and was way you're talking about.

>> Brian: Your boys did that to you?

>> Ian: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. They were sick of me being mean/

>> Brian: Are they like fiends at this point? Like are they like, hooked? Or like I only what possessed them to do that?

>> Ian: It's kinda tough for me to speculate on how far down the rabbit hole they'd gone. The sense I got was that they were regular users. It's worth noting that we were again. We were on the vague term uppers and tanked, and when I get vicious, I can get pretty mean. And I was really laying into him about how dumb the behavior was. So that's just that's that might have been part of why. And as will become importantly here in the story again, I didn't really fight terribly hard. And it wasn't like the trunk like a sedan. It was the back of an SUV, but they did muscle me into the back.

>> Brian: Okay.

>> Ian: But we were by no means in park. So I think as I recall that was a larger part of my concern was that I'll get in the back. But somebody needs to make sure the car doesn't drive itself away.

>> Brian: Yeah, and and And to make sure that the cops don't think like someone's getting kidnapped right now and then we're all fucked.

>> Ian: I think it's safe to say that in that neighborhood, the cops weren't there. And if they were, their advice would have been, You guys just need to go. You just need to go.

>> Brian: Um, probably. Yeah. That's where that's where White Skin might have played a factor. Who knows?

>> Ian: I that we're going to that topic for hours. Because that definitely has had played a factor that specific crew's, um, adventures. Anyway, I got into the back and they continued on their merry hunt, and I found a bottle of Jameson and decided to get as mean as I possibly could and really was digging into him and their intellect. They were trying to tell me to shut up, which was not working. And finally they started... There was some threats, you know, like if you don't shut up, we're gonna kick the shit out of you. And finally pulled over into what we had first thought was an alleyway, but turned out just to be a really shitty dead end street. And they were alright. It was fight time. It was time to kick the shit out of Ian for being too mean about all this. And I got out of the car and there's three of them. The little kid who's home we were we had been ostensibly looking for, He pretty quickly realized that this was not something he could be a part of. The red headed fella I'd already kicked the shit out of for funsies a couple times. One particular isn't so he was a little on the fence about it. And the taller, skinny fella, he really wanted to kick my ass. So what I ended up doing, I clocked the redhead guy in the face, and then I took my skinny fella down and I redded out, which is when you do not know what has happened for a short period of time. Because the blood rush of violence.

>> Brian: Oh, I'm gonna I'm gonna steal the shit out of that for. Is that common parlance?

>> Ian: I believe so. don't remember where I first heard it, but I've been experience against that was a very, very small kid.

>> Brian: You're veregating my alcohol vocabulary. I got the blackout, the brownout. You know, the brownout where you're in and out, sort of. And red out out from my understanding.

>> Ian: It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with substance. It doesn't have to have anything to do with substance at all.

>> Brian: It doesn't hurt that you're, you know, wasted and coked up a little bit.

>> Ian: Who's to say?

>> Brian: Plausible deniability, Right? It was very prescribed add medication.

>> Ian: It was something. It was energetic and it was working.

>> Brian: Which reminds me that's one of my that actually might be. My favorite line in your show is when Corin's like, passed out or something. And one of the girls in that episode, where they like they're, like, werecats or something. Everyone with their names on the where there were wererats... They come back and wake him up, and he's like, I think this is a prescription. (laughter)

>> Ian: Yeah.

>> Brian: The first words out of his mouth. I love it. Anyway, So Okay, so, yeah. There, you guys, you guys are outside. Your redded out.

>> Ian: Yeah, I read out. Well, when I come to, I'm I'm smashing my buddy's face into the pavement and Oh, my God. Yeah, and I All I see coming back is the back of his head in the back of his head, his hair in my hand and blood all over the pavement.

>> Brian: Oh, God.

>> Ian: I broke down sobbing immediately. I probably would have in any case, but particularly because this was one of my best friends. And this was sort of like in this story, they're a little more the bad guys. But I was not a good guy at that time in my life. I was making a lot of poor choices. I mean, the fact that I was in that car at all was not because I was, you know, things were going well and that was where the decision started to become inevitable where my unemployment and my will he won't he... addiction and the nightly carousing it stopped. Being a possibility became a necessity for me to get out. Not long afterwards, I got a phone call from a friend from years and years and years before who lived in Flagstaff, who suggested I come out and visit and we had used to fool around in college.

>> Brian: Flagstaff, that's it.

>> Ian: Down in the dark and dirty Southwest, but anyway, so she invited me out, offered to pay for my flight, to go by flight out if I played for the flight back. And I was like, I don't really have any money And we worked out something and this was on Easter five years ago and which obviously has its own sort of mythology of rebirth. And I thought that was rather fitting and kind of a sign because the call really came out of the clear blue sky, and within five days I'd given away or thrown away or stored all my earthly belongings, except for a couple things in a little bag, and was on a plane to Flagstaff just try to figure my life out. Things did not go well in Flagstaff either. To start, I did very quickly ended up without a place to stay. The gal who brought me out there had recently left an engagement, and it became clear that I was sort of the had been sort of flown in to be the new boyfriend fiance.

>> Brian: The rebound.

>> Ian: Yeah, And within the 1st 12 hours, we had all gotten again, super shit canned. And she had decided that I was no longer welcome in her house. And so pretty much right out the gate. My little adventure to rediscover myself was fucked. I was homeless almost immediately and slept on the couch of one of her friends for a little bit. And then I didn't really sleep much of anywhere for awhile. And I remember there was a phone call I had with my mom... I was talking to my mom every day. She was fully aware of what was going on and not in such an irresponsible way. Like I was very clear. This was my call to make. I need to do turn my life around. But there is a point where she was telling me that I could come home because this wasn't really working. And when I just ended up breaking down, sobbing and saying was No, I can't because if I go home, it's just a matter of time, probably days, if not just hours before I get back and I'll be in the exact same situation I was in before and I was gonna need to figure out how to be a better person. Which is tricky, because I dare say that a lot of people struggle with the idea that you can be a better person at that point.

>> Brian: How old are you at this point?

>> Ian: Right now on 32 this was the spring. I was just about to turn 27. I ended up getting ah ended up finding a small like a hostile that I could work at just a couple hours in the morning for a bunk bed to stay in, and I was there for a couple weeks. And then I got a job working on the south rim of the Grand Canyon for 9 to 10 months. That was where the worst sort of not... I don't know if I would call it withdrawal, because I never I never had withdrawal from the uppers. I did definitely struggle to remember who I was.

>> Brian: There's definitely an imbalance of some sort that, like, you know, you're adjusting. There's not like that stuff doesn't give you, ah, as as much of an acute withdrawal, but it does require, I mean, it fucks with your serotonin and dopamine a lot, you know, and especially with alcohol.

>> Ian: I was not so good at happy.

>> Brian: Yeah, right there's the there's the medical term is like anhedonia.

>> Ian: It should be noted that I also did not stop drinking at that point. At that point, I was still hitting the bottle pretty frequently and pretty hard and was trying to teach myself, as anybody with the upper experience could tell you, I was trying to teach myself how to not drink so much that I just needed a snort to reboot. That lesson, it turns out, can't you can't really spend that knob or unring that bell rather. But I was clean off the things and that was that was a big step. Yes, I did that for awhile. Picked up a dui. I destroyed a car and decided to leave the Grand Canyon. And then I lived in this tiny town in Colorado for a couple of years. I should back up a little bit. There was this choice that got made right about the time that I left Baltimore, where I decided that three years was the number, because that would be when I was turning 30. 

And I don't know if there's any validity to this whatsoever, particularly because morality is a difficult compass to watch. But I decided that part of the deal was... It was about time I moved the Grand Canyon the figures became clear. I decided that for three years at least, I was gonna live off the grid to a certain extent. I wasn't going to be in any major cities. I wasn't going to be around drugs. Or at least hardcore drugs, and I was gonna It was the self imposed exile for my sins. I do not believe that the prison complex, whatever, works. And I certainly was not going there voluntarily. But I had done a lot of bad shit and I wanted to do some sort of sentence or time for that. Which is weird because I didn't have a bad time all those three years. A lot of the stuff that I went through was really positive and really great. And I met a lot of wonderful people will go from beautiful things,

>> Brian: Go figure you feel better. You start doing stuff that makes you feel better about yourself.

>> Ian: I was still trying. I was struggling to get the writing on board. Every spring that I lived in Colorado, I would get very gung ho about the writing, and then by mid summer I would fall off again. I was trying to figure out how to be a better person, I guess, and I was not wholly successful. I don't think it was a total failure, though, and then about after I've been in Colorado for about two years. This was in a tiny town, population 400/450 in the winter, and I just got kind of done with being there. And I'd always wondered about Austin. I'd heard a lot of fuss about it, Um, for, you know, ironically for the party scene, but also the music and the arts scene in general. And then one day I was like, All right, let's go, Let's check it out. Let's see what's happening. And I got here strangely for no particular reason that I can tell. I guess it might have been the distance like I wasn't living... I was so used to living walking distance from friends and bars and having so much to do There was just there. I just started writing again. I remember there was one morning in particular where I was driving deep in the suburbs surrounding Austin. And they have turnarounds there, which is just like an exit on the highway where you it is just a bridge, pretty much you get off so that you can turn around and go the other way on the highway.

>> Brian: Okay.

>> Ian: And I saw one of these signs turn around and thought, huh? I'll bet you that's a great fucking place for an adventure. Turn around Texas. And then I got home about 20 minutes later and started writing the Christ Errant trilogy, which was this series of stories about Jesus, the jaded, drunken private detective who's like, totally lost faith in humanity. But he's trying to figure out how to be a good person again. My recurring theme, and that was where it all sort of kicked back into gear. That was two and 1/2 years ago. And, you know, I often talk with my close friends here in Austin about it that I don't party anymore. 

But I have definitely hyper aware that I have supplanted addictions. That where I used to go out and drink pretty much every night. Now I get up in the morning and I am writing. I am on it. That's all I want to do. I don't really socialize much. I don't, you know, have a game crew. All I want to do is write, and that that is much better than ending up in a back alley beating the shit out of one of my dear friends because we shouldn't be in the hood trying to score dope. But it's also something that they eventually have to pay the piper on this one. Eventually, there's gonna come a day where the fact that I have trouble sitting and having a conversation or sitting at dinner with folks because I'm just thinking about how much time I'm wasting when I could pee out spinning words eventually, that's gonna be a problem. And I'm humbly aware of that. That this is not I might no means at the end of this journey of redemption. I'm just at a far better fucking point than I ever have been.

>> Brian: Are you aware of what the next step might be? Or are you okay with that uncertainty, or does it scare the shit out of you or all of the above?

>> Ian: Certainly it scares the shit out of me. And right now, yeah, I'm pretty good with it. You know, I've got this. I got this podcast man that I'm working on, you know, because podcasts are cool. And it's an audio drama. It's got 1/2 demon wooo... so my focus being on getting that show out. And the accompanying projects will talk about a little bit more in a moment right now, driving so much attention into that is really important to me and is working for me. There's a great line in Bull Durham about having to respect the streak. Can't fuck with the streak. Got to respect the street.

>> Brian: Love that movie. Love Bull Durham.

>> Ian: Great great fucking movie. Yeah, but I can really relate because I remember back when I was, like, maybe 24 25 whatever me and my ex girlfriend were at some lunch with a bunch of, you know, people I didn't care about. And I was just like, I was kind of just moody the whole time, I guess, and it was noticeable. And so she mentioned it when we got back and I was like, Yeah, well, I'm like, 25 and I could be working on my novel right now and said, I'm like, at this lunch with shit munchers. And it's like looking back, I'm like, Yeah, that's not that wasn't healthy thing to be thinking like, I can't be writing 24/7 you know, But I can totally I can totally relate. But like and at the same time, you're totally right. It's better than engaging in intense violence against people you call friends. You know what I mean? It's it's pretty, it's tough. It's an evolution, that's for sure.

>> Ian: It is an evolution so and there's also I mean, it is a tricky thing because, you know, because one of the great truisms of writing is that I'm very glad that I do not have this kind of friends and family. But frequently people talk about like people telling them to give up the dream and stop spending so much time and so much energy on the craft and blah, blah, blah, blah. And you do have to be driven in your own and make your own schedule. My girlfriend frequently says, like I'll say, Well, shit on behind. I didn't get this stuff done the day they want to get done, and she looked at me and go, Yeah, but you made those deadlines like those weren't real. You insisted that they exist and she's right. But somebody's got to make those deadlines or else what the fuck are we doing? You know, like there's no there's no goddamn point if we're not gonna be Take this shit seriously. 

So it is a lot of balancing, and I wonder sometimes if I'd caught into a different pursuit or if you know, I had a different passion or what have you, that it would be easier to get my life in my morality back together. It was just like Okay, cool. I showed up to work today. I you know, I counted numbers and sat in meetings and I did the right thing. And I feel proud of myself. And I'm good. Would I be able to socialize and relax with my fellow man more easily now, or would it be just another version of the same problem? I don't know. I have no idea. I do know that I'm happier than I've ever been in my entire life. From the fuckin commune. I am happier now than at any other juncture because even if the craft of wordsmith and storytelling and all that shit, even if it never goes anywhere, it's still gives me a reason to wake up in the morning and make that morning matter. So I'm not complaining, but yeah.

One day, I'm gonna need to figure it out. There was an interesting conversation I had recently with another podcaster. I won't drop their name, but, you know, they're a big deal. And she was talking to me about, like, what are the steps that you're going through now to try to make your podcast more noticeable or to get what you need out of the podcasting medium? And we had a great conversation. And then at some point, right near the end, she said, Okay, so these are the problems that you're having these steps they're taking. What if it doesn't work? And I didn't have an answer and didn't feel bad about it? Yeah, because the answer is just like... It doesn't matter/

>> Brian: Yeah. I'll be honest. That was the same question that was rolling around in my head. It's like, you know what else is there, but so, yes, So it doesn't matter is your answer.

>> Ian: I mean, at this point, I just want I got so many cool stories I want to tell you know. And the more that I can figure out how to tell stories that are that are difficult. And the characters are suffering, and it and other people can empathize with that suffering. And I can have these direct conversations with them over the Internet, and when I'm fortunate enough in person and they feel the need to be better... as long as that's happening, I'm fucking winning. Like I'm pulling off. And even, frankly, if nobody was listening, I still get to tell these stories. And I'm just gonna keep doing it until, you know, until they nail me shut in the box. I'm fucking... I just want to tell these. I just want to let these people live, you know?

>> Brian: Yeah. Yeah. No, I totally agree with you. I mean, um, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer, but in my head, that's the right answer. It's like you do it because you want to do it. But yeah. Um, dude Ah, so we're hitting like, an hour, which is, like, usually you usually where we start to wind it down, but, um, I think definitely in the future. We gotta have you back on as you continue to work on your show. And I mean, I think there's just a shit ton we can talk about.

>> Ian: Absolutely. For example, the next time I come on, I'm currently working. This thing can kind of work is like a ah foreshadowing for the next show sort of thing, but also wrapping it up. One of the things that I'm working on a lot is that the shroud universe that I've built for this podcast and for ah, couple of unpublished novels that I've got hanging around... its expansive and what I'm doing right now are developing a series of spin offs that are going to expand upon the universe. They'll have a lot of the same cast of actors on the shows. They'll have quite a few of the same characters. Certainly a lot of the same terminology. And that's what I'm working on right now is trying to develop for release down the line. So when I'm getting closer to releasing one of those, I will let you know, sir, and we should talk about some of that.

>> Brian: Absolutely, absolutely on the record.

>> Ian: On the record.

>> Brian: Okay, Yeah, I'll close it out and then, um, yeah.

>> Ian: just one more time for the cheap seats. The show is Under the Shroud. The adventures of a humble half demon. And we welcome you to join us. Yeah, we'll haunt your thoughts and dreams.

>> B: And please help Corin. Hit him up on patreon because you know, or else he's gonna start getting the itches and the sweats. No one wants that.

>> Ian: Alright. OK, that's it for today's episode. If you like what you heard, please subscribe and review on whichever platform you're listening. You can get in touch with us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram @animalriotpress or through our website animalriotpress.com. This has been the 38th episode of the Animal Riot Podcast brought to you by Animal Riot Press with me or host Brian Birnbaum and featuring Ian Humphrey. Transcripts for our Deaf and Hard of Hearing animals are provided by Jonathan Kay and we're produced by Katie Rainey, without whom we'd be merely two of Shakespeare's 1000 monkeys banging on a typewriter.