Episode 31: Fugitives & Animals Part 2

August 29th, 2019
Hosted by Katie Rainey
Guests: Scuppernong Books, Bookmarks, Sunrise Books, Firestorm Books & Coffee, Main Street Books & Wall of Books
Produced by Katie Rainey
Transcript by Jon Kay
Podcast Assistant: Dylan Thomas

We're back Animals! After a week off, we're back with our 31st episode. This episode is the second in our two-part series about our North Carolina trip we're calling "Fugitives & Animals: A Collaborative Literary Tour". In this episode, producer & stand-in host, Katie Rainey, sat down with the owners and workers of each bookstore we visited to talk about books, community work, and all things related to the North Carolina Literary Scene. We're so thrilled to feature these great community places, so tune in to hear from Scuppernong Books, Bookmarks, Sunrise Books, Firestorm Books & Coffee, Main Street Books & Wall of Books. 

>> Narrator: Welcome to the 31st episode of the Animal Riot Podcast, brought to you by Animal Riot Press, a literary press for books that matter. I'm your stand-in host, Katie Rainey, filling in for Brian Birnbaum while he’s away. I am so excited about today’s episode. This is a special collaborative episode - the second in our two-part Fugitives & Animals special - comprised of several interviews by bookstore owners and literary supporters that I’ll be narrating along the way.

>> Katie: ...and they're only putting out one author's book a year or something like that.

>> Steve: Gotta sell all the moon pies. (laughter)

>> Katie: All the moon pies. Was everyone here for the moon pie talk? Steve will talk about moon pies at some point. My name is Katie Rainey and I'm the editor-in-chief of Animal Riot Press, a literary press that focuses on publishing books that matter in ways that matter.

>> Narrator: Two weeks ago, we collaborated with our pals from Southern Fried Karma Press on an endeavor called “Fugitives & Animals: A Collaborative Literary Tour”. Many months ago, SFK’s publisher, Steve McCondichie, and I sat down to talk about what a possible collaboration between our presses might look like. For small - or fiercely independent as Steve likes to say - presses without big marketing budgets, creating grassroots, on the ground initiatives are essential to getting the word out about your press, sharing your authors’ work and finding new writers. Of course we can put out the call all day long, but one of the things we love about indie presses is the close, personal relationships they have with writers. And we develop those by getting our boots on the ground and meeting folks.

>> Steve: ...Not tonight. There's a lot of good running up there that can find an audience. That's what we're talking about, was finding your audience. You gotta be in the bookstores. What you guys are doing tonight on a regular basis, you gotta be a part of the community and involved in the bookstores. Carolina has got more great bookstores in the Piedmont area... that's how we pronounce it in Georgia. Pee-ay-maw (laughter)

>> Narrator: When Steve and I started to put this tour together, we almost instantly decided on North Carolina. SFK Press has several authors on their roster from North Carolina and I, personally, have close ties with the state after having lived in Winston-Salem for many years. We knew there was an active literary community there and, aside from wanting to promote our writers, which you can catch an interview with George Hovis and Matthew Duffus on episode 30, we wanted to make connections to these communities, including bookstore owners, writers, and supportive literature lovers.

>> Katie: Part of the reason why we're doing these tours in all local bookstores is because, just like independent presses, we feel that local bookstores are doing work for readers and writers that should be done. Big chains, Barnes and Noble They don't care about our books. They don't care about local authors. They care about the big ones that big houses Big Five soon to probably be the Big Four because they keep eating each other until it's just Big one, which is Amazon. (laughter)

>> Narrator: So Steve and I decided this wouldn’t be just any book tour, but a collaborative conversation on publishing, writing, and community. We traveled to six different cities and bookstores in the Western half of North Carolina and talked with writers from all over about their work and what the indie publishing scene is doing, at least from our perspective.

>> Katie: Yes, so I think one of the big things for us and what we're really advocating for... we are two small presses, fiercely independent presses and are friends with a lot of other independent presses. And one thing that people don't tend to look at when they read a book is the publisher books coming from You hear over and over again, like what is this person getting published on? Why are they on The New York Times? This, you said earlier, you know why. Because the market is scared. The industry is scared, They're afraid to put out books that may challenge their readers in some way. So rather than going with the unknown who we don't know how this book is gonna go. But the book's really good. It may be challenging. We have no idea what kind of popularity they have, So why don't we go with the safer bet by this very well known writer who has written a kind of mediocre book, But we know it's gonna sell x amount. And that happens over and over and over again with big publishing.

And that's where indie presses come in and work just like independent bookstores. Where at Barnes & Noble they're gonna stock whatever they can. But here at Bookmarks, they're going to go through and read the books and handpick them. You get staff picks. You come in here and say, I'm really into science fiction like I'm really into literary science fiction. I want something that well crafted with, like, enhanced language but also that has that science fiction element. Can you like, help me figure out, it's not quite in the fictions or sci fi section. You're gonna get that level of customer service here that you won't know for sure. 

And that is the same with indie press. They are handcrafting books. They're working directly with the authors, like forming relationships. Like George and Steve, you are buddies traveling around North Carolina together. No publisher of the Big Five is doing that with authors. They aren't hardly going to any readings unless it's a big, fancy New York City launch party. But a lot of indie presses are digging down into the trenches, making these folks happen, putting forth literature that really needs an audience and helping their authors find an audience. And so that’s the important thing that I try to encourage everybody in our literary community. So like start looking at who's publishing books you like.

>> Narrator: We didn’t want the conversation to be one-sided, meaning that we didn’t want to just come in and talk about what we believe about publishing and the literary community. Our events were a dialogue between us and writers and the bookstores that hosted us. So that’s what we’re sharing with you today. We recorded conversations at every event with the people that run the bookstores and community spaces we were welcomed in. First we talked with Shannon of Scuppernong Books in Greensboro.

>> Shannon: My name is Shannon Jones. I am the manager of Scuppernong Books, Greensboro's Independent Bookshop. We have been here about five and 1/2 years. This is the brainchild of Brian Lampkin and Steve Mitchell the two owners, and they also have another party of Dave and Deb White, the other owning parties here. But it was hatched as the brainchild of Brian and Steve to have a space in Greensboro that was an independent bookshop, but also very much serves as a community space in space for ideas congregating.

>> Narrator: Our second event was at Bookmarks in Winston-Salem, and although we didn’t get to record an interview with the team there (shout out to Jami, Lisa, Jennifer, and the whole team that helped make this event happen), we did get a nice introduction from Lisa on how Bookmarks started.

>> Lisa: We started as a festival. We had a junior leaguer that had this dream, and out of that has grown like in addition to the bookstore would just celebrated their second anniversary last month. We also have the Authors in Schools program. Also we're in the midst of the Book Bill Capital Campaign, putting 300 new titles in each of the county school libraries.

>> Katie: Cool!

>> Lisa: It's a half million dollar, 3 year project. We are 2/3 the way through and that we've actually got some process so it's kind of cool. It's making a difference. It's putting books in the kid's hands with authors that look like that with characters that look like them.

>> Katie: Thank you (clapping).

>> Narrator: Next, we went to Sunrise Books in High Point and talked with owner Angel.

>> Angel: Angel Schroeder, and I own Sunrise Books in High Point North Carolina, and we opened about three years ago. We moved here less than a year ago. This store is newer.

>> Katie: What was the impetus for opening the store?

>> Angel: To have something to do in High Point. This is my first retail venture.

>> Katie: Okay.

>> Angel: I have written. I have been in printing. I've done a lot of different things, but I thought if High Point is ever gonna have a downtown, it really needs a bookstore.

>> Katie: Yeah. Where's the name come from?

>> Angel: Oh, my daughter came up with that name. I have a 19 year old daughter and she said, I wish I could see the sunrise every morning. We were in the car, going somewhere and you know, she's a teenager, doesn't see the sunrise very often (laughter), So this would take some kind of magical event. But I started thinking about it and sunrise, you know, it seemed very optimistic and happy and, you know, forward looking. So that's how it started.

>> Narrator: That's how it our fourth stop was in West Asheville, where we recorded with Mick, one of the owner workers of Firestorm books.

>> Mick: My name is Mick. I am a worker owner here at Firestorm. So we are a work owned cooperative.

>> Katie: Okay.

>> Mick: And we run the bookstore collectively. So we all share the managerial work in terms of operating the bookstore.

>> Katie: It's not volunteer based?

>> Mick: It's not. There's four of us. Three of you are owners and the other person is on track to become an owner.

>> Katie: Okay, cool.

>> Mick: So we started in 2008. And I think at that point, it was It was much larger project. It kind of. It started off primarily as a cafe in community space and a kind of library and bookstore developed alongside that. So Firestorm was in downtown Nashville in 2008 and was there until 2013. And at that point, the collective looked at doing some restructuring and found out that actually, most of the folks who were coming in and were returning customers there were located in West Asheville. So there was a decision made to move to West Asheville, and within that, there was like, a year long break. So it took a while to find a new location and then kind of move stuff into storage. And then move that stuff over here. But Firestorm started in this location in 2015. So has been here now for four years. And now at this point, really so initially in this location, we were still a bookstore and cafe. Since that time the cafe has come down and the bookstore has expanded. So go take a look. We've got this children's section That was a big expansion last year, and we still hold on to the coffee and a little bit of a cafe space. But now we have really taken the identity of a bookstore with this community room as something that we offer to the community.

>> Narrator: And finally, we talked with Eleanor, the manager of Main Street Books in Davidson.

>> Eleanor: I am the event coordinator at Main Street Books and Main Street Books opened in 1987 by two friends who ran it admirably until 2015 when they decided they were ready to retire, at which point they sold the bookstore to Ada Fitzgerald, a graduate of Davidson college who was teaching in the area. She was actually my seventh grade biology teacher.

>> Katie: Oh cute.

>> Eleanor: Yes, isn't it? And now we're coworkers.

>> Katie: So she's now the owner.

>> Eleanor: She's now the owner.

>> Katie: She's your boss now?

>> Eleanor: Now she's my boss.

>> Katie: That's cute.

>> Eleanor: Yeah, and she totally renovated the entire space.

>> Katie: Oh, really? It's a beautiful space.

>> Eleanor: They did a great job, and a lot of it the construction they did themselves, her and her family. And since then, with the help of her booksellers and staff, she's been sort of ramping up the author programming and just getting more life in here.

>> Narrator: We had a sixth event at Walls of Books in Cornelius, North Carolina, but unfortunately didn’t get to record that conversation. Shout out to Melinda and her daughter Lindsay who run the store together. We wanted to share those intros to each bookstore to acknowledge and thank the folks who sat down to chat with me. These bookstores are more than just places to buy books. They’re places of community, where people of all ilks can come together and share ideas.

>> Shannon: It's a space where people can come and talk to each other. Talk about books. Talk about whatever's going on in the world. In addition to, you know, having book clubs here and authors and different events for presses and things, we also try to let a lot of different community groups use the space, and we also, on our schedule, have done several series of events that encourage dialogue and conversation.

>> Katie: So you do some events for other groups to? You said, You have a church group coming in after us, and of course, we're here doing, you know, the Fugitives and Animals tour. What are some other community events and things going on?

>> Angel: I've had various groups in here. I do my church meets in little groups here. You know, sometimes you just want to be outside of church with your church friends. We have several book clubs here. We've also had some Democratic Party events here, and I've had a couple of I had one candidate here a couple of years ago. You know, it's just kind of a good third place to have meetings and come together, So I pretty much say yes to about everything because it's just great to have people here. We have a poetry group that comes and reads their own poetry once a month, which is...

>> Katie: Oh, that's great. With the other book stores that we've been too, you know, I've been really trying to highlight the community work that local bookstores do because it's they're never just a bookstore. It's always like there's a space for conversation for were critical thought and to further the community. And that's why most of these books stores have opened. And you already said that High Point downtown needed a bookstore if there was ever gonna be a downtown. Do you feel like you've been accomplishing that mission with Sunrise Books?

>> Angel: I do, I do. I mean, we clearly have room for lots more to go on, but we've had... There's a Christmas event that happens right around here that's really great. And it's just been a matter of getting the word out in this day and age people don't read the newspaper like they used to. You don't have a local radio, and it's just hard to figure out where to get the word out. That's been a challenge.

>> Katie: Hopefully we'll be able to help you with some of that.

>> Angel: I hope so

>> Katie: For those High Point listeners that you're here and you're welcoming and it's a very welcoming store. It's very bright and sunny in here, as the name suggests.

>> Katie: So what kind of events you guys have back here?

>> Mick: Yeah, a wide range of events. Folks have, like, monthly, meet up groups around various interests, and then they're obviously author events, but they're also, from time to time, like workshops. So things that come to mind are like herbal like there's a big herbalism scene here in Asheville.

>> Katie: Oh cool.

>> Mick: So folks have done workshops back here around that kind of stuff. And that's like we really envision this space is a space of encounter where folks from different walks of life from different places can come to meet one another. And, like I think there's a lot of talk these days about what spaces are safe or not. We put in work and are intentional about trying to create a space that it's safer but we also know that like conflict intention, it's kind of inevitable when people from different walks of life are mixing with one another, and we don't shy away from that. We think we actually wear that for growth. But you know, it is complicated and nuanced as well. We want folks to show up and be their full self. And I think our ask is that that's done in good faith, right? So it's not about getting the language right every single time, every time you open your mouth. It's not about like it's not creating an environment where people aren't allowed to be wrong, aren't allowed to say something wrong. It's asking that folks show up open minded and in good faith.

>> Katie: Do you guys do a lot of like community? I mean, this is a great space to have a conversation back here. Do you do a lot of different, like, what are some different events that you do back here?

>> Eleanor: Sure. So we have a few different clubs. We have a writing club, a book club, and an audiobook and knitting club, which has been a fun adventure, and so that those those groups tend to be really tight knit. And then we have a ton of programming and some of that is just sort of the traditional reading and signing with authors. We've been trying to expand into more interactive programming, and then the readers really feel connected involved and have discovered that those tend to be or more successful events where people are walking away feeling like, Oh, yeah, I really I feel good.

>> Katie: I got something.

>> Eleanor: Yeah.

>> Katie: That's definitely what we're like we're trying to come in with that is a bit on being more of a dialogue, like question/answer conversation rather than just like here's some information. Digest it.

>> Narrator: Most local bookstores go beyond that title and open their doors to the local community in all kinds of ways.

>> Katie: What would you say the mission of Main Street books is?

>> Eleanor: Yeah, we talked about that a lot in sort of through those conversations, what we've come to decide is one of the most important things that we can do is sort of the same mission as books. Which is that I think, and a lot of the folks here think that they should be both windows and mirrors. A way to look into other people's lives and empathize and also a way to see yourself reflected back at you.

>> Katie: I like that.

>> Eleanor: And so, as you can see, we have a gathering space back here, and so it affords us the opportunity to let books become sort of a mechanism for making the same windows and mirrors connections with people, and I think that could happen a lot of times through conversations about characters and narratives and reading. So that those sorts of community building face-to-face interactions are really well what we're trying to do.

>> Katie: There's so much progress to me to be made in just dialogue, that I don't think people think a lot about that and that how, like local bookstores, can be a platform for that. It's not just about selling books, it's a community space and the way you guys are promoting these conversations, I think it's wonderful. I don't know too many book stores that are doing that at that level, which is really incredible.

>> Shannon: I think it's important for a bookstore, and I know this is something that Brian and Steve feel strongly about. It's important for it to be just be a hub of ideas. Whether that's we're getting together to talk about Where the Crawdads Sing for the book club or whatever the hot read is for that summer or we're getting together to talk about this big pressing social issue, it's all one and the same thing. It's just people who live in the same area coming together to share ideas and have those one on one interactions, which is why I think you are seeing a bit of resurgence in independent bookstores because that's the aspect, that community aspect, is the thing you can't really get from Amazon or from like, the big chains like Barnes And Noble they don't have that you will come in and see people and know that they'll want to engage with him and talk to you about Oh, I just read this great book. Let me tell you about it. I'm excited about it. Or Oh, hey, we have this event going on that we're really excited about. Please come out and be a part of it and get to know the people in your community that way. And I think that's the element that's missing from a lot of the big box book chains and then obviously like the Internet giants like Amazon. I don't think they have that thing that I think a lot of readers want. Yeah, years ago, we had a series that ran through the fall called "Ask A Muslim Anything". It was a series of panel events that we had some people who were local authors. There's some just local community members and clergy members and different Muslim hosts around town and just answering questions and having like discussions about it. And also last fall had an immigration stories series where we had different authors and conversation groups on what it means to be an immigrant and what it means to be a refugee in the US.

>> Katie: Wow, so Scuppernong is really taking that community level like community work to the next level. How do we get this conversation out in the community? These are questions people have. So why not get a panel of of Muslim folks up here answer questions and make people feel like more understanding? Because the more you understand each other...

>> Shannon: Exactly. And really, it's something that has just been blossomed naturally out of the passions and interests of the ownership and management here. Like it's never been a forced thing, or we feel like we have to talk about X, Y, and Z topic. It's usually this is something we feel passionate about, anyway. We also had a good bit of organizing here, and different conversation groups and panels during the House Bill One, the bathroom bill in North Carolina. We sort of accidentally became a hub for that conversation.

>> Katie: Wow.

>> Shannon: Just because we have a lot of LGBT and particular transgendered customers here and people in our community that we care about who are transgender. And so it ended up being a very natural thing for us to be outspoken about it and try to serve as a community dialogue point.

>> Katie: Did someone in the community reach out to have that conversation or was that like, just you heard things going on and people are already doing it in here?

>> Shannon: We knew obviously we knew the news of what House Bill One was and what was being discussed in that at the political level. And it started with us just making a statement saying, Well, we disagree with this and anyone can use our restroom. We fundamentally disagree with the principle behind this bill and then that led to community groups reaching out saying, Hey, we heard that you guys were against this. Can we use the space for this or that education events surrounding it? And we said Sure, and it kind of spiraled from there. So most of these things were born very naturally out of sensibilities and passions of the management here.

>> Katie: You guys are... from what I understand, the collective promotes itself as an LGBTQ safe space, that kind of thing. Can you talk a little bit about that?

>> Mick: Yeah, So, I mean, we're an anarchist collective, so I think that's where you see that manifest is in the worker ownership. So there is no boss. We manage the bookstore collectively, and then we've got, you know, general interest books with a radical slant that are primarily gonna feature queer and trans and feminists and, like, radical political literature, whether that's fiction or nonfiction. So, yeah, that's and then that, you know, sort of is the core of our community, and we kind of build out from there.

>> Katie: How have you seen that focus affect the West Asheville community?

>> Mick: Well, I think the West Asheville community really likes having us here. Supports us. And I think that at times things can be, you know, just in the current political context, intense or tension can rise, and the community is always very supportive of our presence and continue to work so we feel good about where we're at. Like I said, we've been here for four years now, and we're having one of our best years so far, so things are looking good.

>> Katie: That's one thing we've been talking to... all the bookstore owners have said, like because we're all like local, private small bookshops that really, like curate what they're doing that it becomes are really a space for, like, dialogue and community and, like folks come in. It's not just a bookstore. It's really about like promoting that community oriented lense into where they are. It's really cool just to hear you guys talk about it. I have a quick question about, like the POC writing community here. Like what does it look like? I'm assuming that all fits into the same like LGBTQ mission and trying to cultivate that space.

>> Mick: Sure, I mean, like we anti racism is written into our anti oppression statements. Have you got a statement that's published on our website and we do a lot of work to be intentional about what authors are. We're highlighting. So like, for instance, I know there's been a lot of maybe controversy is the right word. But in in writing for young adult fiction.

>> Katie: Oh yeah.

>> Mick: And we have we've really moved towards only featuring books that are written in someone's own voice. So when it's a character like characters of color that is written by and from the perspective of someone who understands that world. So those are some of the small things we do just in terms of being intention, intentional about our inventory, who we're spotlighting, who were carrying and like, how we curate for it.

>> Katie: I asked each of the bookstore representatives what affect or impact they think they’ve had with this work on their communities.

>> Shannon: I would say the biggest thing we saw and this is typically what we see here is just the conversations. It's really nice to see people talking to each other about the things and see, you know, maybe someone's views, or, if not necessarily changed its least augmented. Like, oh I've never thought about this aspect of an issue before, and you see that a lot of our events. We just hope that people come away with new ideas and new points of conversations.

>> Katie: What we've been seeing all week with the different bookstores we've been in is that they are not just bookstores. It is a place for community to have dialogue about different things in the community, things going on in the world, a space for people to process and to let come in and feel safe, even though like the word safe spaces like a debatable thing. But for a place of community so have you seen anything like that, like grow in in this store like community dialogue about certain things happening outside of the bookstore?

>> Eleanor: Absolutely. And it really puts into perspective how eager people are to just connect with other people. So I can't tell you how many times have been working a shift in someone will come in and we'll start a conversation about books. But they're looking for a lead in to talk about something that's happening in life, which is just in some ways, it's shocking, but in other ways just makes the most perfect sense in the world. And so we have also tried to use the space to have conversations in the wake of the last presidential election and in the wake of some of our town board elections that created a bit of a rift in our community. So we tried to have some conversations and programming in the store then.

>> Katie: Can you talk about that rift?

>> Eleanor: I would describe it as different visions of where the town should go, which has grown, I want to say quadrupled within 10 years in population size. So it's trying to figure out how to grow and preserve the character of the town and what that should look like.

>> Katie: So you that different ideologies like kind of battling for the identity of the town?

>> Eleanor: Exactly.

>> Narrator: I think it’s pretty easy to see why bookstores are so important. They aren’t just a place for buying and selling books. They’re places of community where folks with different backgrounds can come together and share ideas. They are where the conversations this country needs to have happen are happening. One thing that is so important to Animal Riot is the literary community and how we interact with it. So we were very interested in hearing how other places interact with their literary communities and what they’re like.

>> Katie: With the literary community in Greensboro, are there writers' networks? I'm sure you host groups and book clubs, you said in here?

>> Shannon: Yes. So we're very fortunate to have a strong writing literary community here in Greensboro. I think that it is functioning in part of all the universities that we have in town. So we have the University of North Carolina in Greensboro, which has a very prominent MFA program, both for fiction and poetry. And so they have a very strong writing literary community there. We also have North Carolina A&T State University, Bennett College and Greensboro College. There are quite a bit of university groups, and we actually carry the books of several professors in the universities who are writers and lots of writing that. And there was also the North Carolina Writers Network has their monthly meeting and open mic here on the second Monday of every month at 6:30.

>> Katie: Oh cool. We have invited them tonight.

>> Shannon: And there's a nonprofit for a Greensboro Literary Organization is the group that we work with to do the green provide literary festival every year. They host a series of writing workshops here in the store.

>> Katie: Oh great.

>> Shannon: Those are your registration and pay, but they usually don't cost very much. Like $10 or something like that to come. And then we also host a quarterly open mic called First Draft through Greensboro Bound, which is an open mic for works in progress, and it is meant to be an open mic of things you are actually working on. The thing I read last at a first draft was an essay that was not actually finished. So we got 2/3 of the way through and I stood up there and said, And now here's the gist of the next 6 paragraphs. The end. (laughter) It is very much a work in progress, but that's actually kind of the fun of it is. You really have a writing community of people who can be silly together and acknowledge that. This is the rough version of this that we're all working on together. It's great.

>> Katie: Yeah, I've been looking while here for other reading series going on because my press started out of a reading series and so it's cool to hear. Do they have a name or anything that they call themselves?

>> Angel: So, yeah, the Pullman Poets Society. Because they started off meeting in an old Pullman car, which is the home of our High Point Arts organization.

>> Katie: Oh I love it. That's great.

>> Narrator: Eleanor of Main Street Books talked about the way southern writers are viewed and the way they ought to be viewed.

>> Eleanor: So the literary community I have found in North Carolina and throughout the South to typically just stray more liberal on the political spectrum than many other spaces. And so I am inclined to say that part of that is, well, not part of that. That's entirely reflected in our story. We do strive to curate a wide selection of reading for a wide selection of views. But, yeah, I think I haven't got a really good, fully formed theory about why that tends to be the prevailing political positioning in literary communities.

>> Katie: I feel the arts always tends to be progressive and liberal in general.

>> Eleanor: That's true.

>> Katie: I mean, it's just that's the way that, like art, that's what arts and culture does is it pushes that way through, and there are certainly flaws in like liberalism and progressivism. But it's good to have a space like this where you're saying you're bringing in a wide variety of authors where you can challenge like those different views and, like start to work through those things because, like so many times you see in space is outside of those siloed opinions just like divide and people don't want to bridge that gap and talk till we really see bookstores as the space where that dialogue can start to happen and, like people can reach across like the books that they love and start to see one another.

>> Eleanor: I think it's also interesting that I think of story telling us as a Southern tradition.

>> Katie: Oh, yeah?

>> Eleanor: I think just cause I think about in my head when I hear really good storytelling, it's always with a slow Southern drawl. And that might just be because the people have told me stories have had that. Part of it is when we do have these conversations and in hearing different viewpoints but both with the Southern accent is just I love hearing that.

>> Katie: Yeah.

>> Eleanor: Because I think it just it's unexpected.

>> Katie: Yeah, that's one thing Steve was talking about earlier tonight that, like, you know, he founded Southern Fried Karma because he didn't want a certain vision of the South to be the face of the South. And like we both really aligned with that mission. Like we know that what people stereotypically think of the South. And we also know the arts and culture and literary scenes that thrive, that people don't often get to see which like, I'm guilty of, as you said in our e mails that, you know, like I tend to be as hypercritical about the South as as anybody else from the South. You know, just like I can like, get really negative about where I come from, but that there's actually like a really thriving scene that does often gets overlooked, and people don't really think about that. I'm wondering if you could do it's like maybe speak a little bit to that to that community.

>> Eleanor: Yeah. I think it is interesting that we use identity groups to help to help us shape our understanding of ourselves and yet identity groups are comprised of vastly different individuals and there are different elements of the identity group that are speaking to them that's not universally the same across all the, you know, all the members. So they are a shorthand for us. But they're so much more nuanced than is often able to be expressed and, you know, a click, a video bite. And so part of what I love about books is that you spend time with fiction, especially. You really spend time with a character in their narrative. And then you get to suss out all the nuances and it's messy. And so I think that's true of not just literature but arts in general. And so I think it's a really effective vehicle for just dissecting all the different...

>> Katie: Developing empathy. For sure.

>> Narrator: While it’s important to talk about and highlight the great work these community hubs are doing, it’s also important to talk about the challenges they face.

>> Katie: How's it been going? How have the last 3 years been?

>> Angel: Good. I've learned a lot. (laughs) Yeah, you know, they don't teach you finance in your English degree.

>> Katie: No. (laughter)

>> Angel: I say, still, the biggest challenge is getting the word out that there's a reason to go to a bookstore rather than just ordering things online. And I know people are gonna order things online and it, you know, you don't have to buy every book person at a bookstore. But a few would be nice. Yeah, getting the word out that there is a bookstore here, I still after three years find lots of people don't know this.

>> Katie: That's one thing that we're really, you know, with this tour. Trying to have conversations about is that both locally owned bookstore, small bookstores and indie presses like us. Or fiercely independent presses if Steve's around... are doing something that say the Big Five publishing or, like Barnes and Noble, aren't doing. Very community driven. We're publishing literature that thinks a little bit more like challenging, intellectually stimulating than say, You know, I'm not not knocking on Simon and Schuster, but and, you know, without this, we're not just losing... without this bookstore, we're not just losing books. We're losing that space for community, that place where people can feel welcome and open. I mean the same with libraries. You know, they have somewhere to go for folks who can't go anywhere during the day. You know, it's a free space to do that. So that's like one of the things we really just trying to highlight on this tour is not only the work that we're doing but the work that book stores are doing as well.

>> Katie: Are there any challenges and being that collective?

>> Mick: Sure, I think there are challenges that are similar to any type of small business operation. But it's a different context in which to run a business. The room we are in right now, you know, again we have, like, found ways to support ongoing community work. So you know most of our revenue is generated by selling books and merchandise, but we're also on Patreon. So we do have a community sustaining program. So folks sign up to give us a certain amount of money per months and we thank them and give them discounts on purchases in store as well as some other perks and that really, that community sustainer's program really goes to make this project of the community room sustainable because, like we've got this space here right now, that isn't monetized this. In most cases, when you're paying the amount we are in rent just because you know rent is going up everywhere, to not utilize that space, to sell more inventory, will look counterintuitive, But you know, our community mission is just is just as much a part of the bookstore as any other component. So we think it's valuable, and the community has responded by, you know, investing in us through that community sustainers program.

>> Narrator: Local bookstores, like a lot of small business owners, are up against a capitalistic market of consolidation and acquisition at every turn, where big companies are getting bigger as they eat each other up. Chains like Barnes and Noble and Amazon dominate the bookstore industry just like the Big 5 in publishing. But small bookstores have survived because their visions go beyond consumerism.

>> Narrator: One of the best things about any small bookstore is how knowledgeable their staff is don't know what to read next. They're going to have a better and more in depth answer for you than some algorithm on Amazon. I went into this tour, knowing I would buy one book from each store because let's be real, I, like most writers and readers, have a book buying problem, and I got some great recommendations along the way.

>> Katie: If I were to get one book in the store, what would you recommend?

>> Shannon: Oh gosh, that's a hard question. Frank Morelli. Who wrote a young adult novel a year or two ago.

>> Angel: I just finished very recently "The Island of Seawomen" by Lisa See, it was an absolutely phenomenal book. I loved it and I'm currently very...

>> Katie: Is it fiction or nonfiction?

>> Shannon: Fiction. It is a novel

>> Mick: I just finished a book. It's called "Zero Bound".

>> Katie: Ok, what's that?

>> Mick: It was a writer from the UK. It was it was set in the near future. Sci Fi.

>> Eleanor: I just finished "The Gulf" by Belle Boggs which came out, I think, a month ago, sort of a straight to paperback.

>> Katie: Was it good?

>> Eleanor: It was good.

>> Shannon: The other one that I'm excited about is "Born a Crime" by Trevor Noah. That is the One City One Book selection for our reads for public library is this summer.

>> Mick: I don't want to overdo it because it has definitely been our best selling book since it came out in March. But "Pleasure Activism".

>> Katie: Okay.

>> Mick: Are you familiar with Adrienne Murray Brown?

>> Katie: No.

>> Mick: Adrienne Murray Brown is a writer, organizer and also considers himself to be a pleasure activist. So the point of the book, it's like about the politics of feeling good.

>> Eleanor: I love Max Porter. He is an author with Grey Wolf Press.

>> Katie: Okay.

>> Eleanor: And, um, he's just phenomenal, but very strange. And so it's difficult to recommend him to readers.

>> Narrator: My TBR pile is back to ridiculously high right now. Before we close out, I asked some of the stores to shout out upcoming events they’ve got going on. So if you’re in the area, check some of these events out.

>> Shannon: I do know that we've got a new young adult author Corey Wang who will be here on Wednesday, September 25th with her new novel, "City of Beasts". I'm pretty excited about that because we're trying to grow our young adult offerings here at the story for events and, you know, opportunities to engage, you know, like a teenage crowd, which is not something we've ever really done before. And I'm pretty excited to be reaching out a little bit more to our high school audience and trying to do more events for them.

>> Mick: Yeah, so we we've actually we've got a book fair coming up at the end of this month. It's an anarchist book fair. Another Carolina anarchist book fair. So that'll be the second to last week of August the 23rd-25th. And there's gonna be workshops all day back here in the community room on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and then, obviously we've got the books here, but they're also be vendors setting up just down the road of The Moth Light, which is a music venue. Should be a really cool, really like rad event.

>> Katie: Is it a free festival?

>> Mick: Yeah, it's a free so anyone can come.

>> Narrator: We want to thank all of the people who sat down with us to talk about their stores and literary communities. These folks are doing the grassroots work that needs to be done to continue expanding and pushing the boundaries of literature. With that being said, I would ask that you listeners take from this episode the power and influence that you have. You have a choice where to buy your books and coffee and I would ask that you think deeply next time you go to purchase a book about where you’re getting it from. Before you buy that book with one click from Amazon, consider ordering it from your local bookstore instead and help keep business like Scuppernong in Greensboro, Bookmarks in Winston-Salem, Sunrise Books in High Point, Firestorm in Asheville, Main Street Books in Davidson, or Walls of Books in Cornelius in business.

>> Shannon: The thing I want people to know the most about supporting their local independent books, not just Scuppernong, but all indies, is really what a difference it makes in your community to choose to do that instead of, you know, going to the Amazon or another resource for your books is that it's directly impacting your community, not just financially, but also by helping bring authors to community and bring book clubs to your community, talks to your community. You're really helping foster discussions and ideas that have no monetary value. Things that are very culturally valuable to your town and city are things that are going to be supported in an independent bookstore. And that is the thing that I really want people to know about supporting your local indies that you were going to... your money is going toward support of values and intellectual values in your community, which I think is really important for anybody not just Scuppernong. But obviously, I want people to support us because I love my job. I would like to keep it (laughter)

>> Katie: Yeah, keep this great bookstore alive. Thank you so much for answering my questions.

>> Katie: Well, thank you, Mick, so much for answering taking the time to answer my questions.

>> Mick: Sure, of course.

>> Katie: Thank you so much for sitting down and talking to me and also hosting us tonight. This has been awesome. Like it was a great conversation. And we just really appreciate being here.

>> Eleanor: Thank you for being here. I mean, the people who came were clearly hungry for it.

>> Narrator: Okay that’s it for today’s episode. If you like what you heard, please subscribe and review on whichever platform you’re listening. You can get in touch with us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram at @AnimalRiotPress, or through our website animalriotpress.com. This has been the 31st episode of the Animal Riot Podcast with me, Katie Rainey, your stand-in host for Brian Birnbaum. Thanks to all of the members of the North Carolina literary community who made an appearance on today’s episode. Our transcripts for our Deaf and Hard of Hearing Animals are provided by Jon Kay, this episode was edited by our podcast assistant Dylan Thomas, and we're produced by me, Katie Rainey. See ya later, ya filthy animals.