Episode 28: The Iceberg Theory
July 24th, 2019
Hosted by Brian Birnbaum
Guests: Janelle Greco & Chelsea Fonden
Produced by Katie Rainey
Transcript by Jon Kay
We're back with the 28th episode of the Animal Riot Podcast brought to you by Animal Riot Press. We're so excited to welcome Chelsea Fonden and Janelle Greco of Eclipsed Reading Series on the podcast today! This dynamic duo is all up in the literary community - from their dope reading series to editing to running writing workshops for the homeless. Join us as we get heady about the writing process and talk about the nature of vulnerability and writing. And of course, we'll get a mix of genres as we hear these lovely ladies read.
>> Brian: Welcome to the 28th episode of the Animal Riot Podcast brought to you by Animal Riot Press, a literary press for books that matter. I'm your host, Brian Birnbaum. We're here today with Chelsea Fonden, a poet and flash fiction writer living in Brooklyn. Chelsea's work has appeared in No Dear magazine, Breadcrumbs magazine and the Electric Encyclopedia of Experimental Literature, among others. Damn, that is a magazine right there. I love it.
>> Chelsea: The EEEL.
>> Brian: Is that what they call it now?
>> Chelsea: It’s now defunct.
>> Brian: That sucks. I like that name. Chelsea's performed as part of the NYC Poetry Brothel and was selected for a 2018 Poetry Society of New York Typewriter Project Micro Residency. Woah. Jesus. That's a mouthful. That's that's an achievement, though. That's how you know it's really. Chelsea has also talked creative writing workshops for NYC homeless shelters and after school programs, and she has almost as many plants as she has feelings. Let's take a... let's sit vigil for that for a second.
Okay. Also joining us today is Janelle Greco, a writer and education director working at Youth Communications and also a resident of Brooklyn because everyone in New York that writes is a resident of Brooklyn. I'm sorry, guys. Janelle's work has previously appeared in "I want to see this before I leave", Modeling House, Hobart Magazine, Gambling the Aisle, and Crab Fat magazine. And she's an assistant fiction editor at No Tokens Journal, which is no joke. That's a pretty serious job. Chelsea and Janelle co founded the Eclipsed Reading Series, which is what makes this paired guesting entirely non random. Oh, yeah, So I'm just gonna I'm gonna say today's a... this episode of brand of fuckery is brought to you by how did people live without air conditioning? Because it's hot as fuck in here. We had to turn the air conditioning off, so there's no sound. So, yeah, let's start with how you guys met and, uh, started Eclipsed, because reading series are very important. We probably wouldn't be sitting here right now if if there weren't for reading series.
>> Janelle: So yeah, what do you want to tell it? Yeah, I can start. I started working for a non profit called the Doe Fund. They run a series of shelters in the city and in Brooklyn, and they also run a It's basically work program for homeless and formerly incarcerated men who were trying to re enter the workforce. And I started working for them in 2009 and I started out as a grant writer there. But he did it, so I really like being in the shelters with the residents. So I transitioned to a job there on the training department, and Chelsea came on board in 2012. In 2012 she was part of the career development team, and we became fast friends that then. We both shared like a passion for the work, and we both shared a passion for reading and writing, and we kind of coalesced at that point.
>> Chelsea: And I remember, like Janelle's a little older than me, and I just thought I like, started. This was my first job in the city. We're both from Long Island, but we didn't know each other yet, so it's like my first job in the city. Move into the city. You don't really know anyone and like there's Janelle and she was, like, so cool and so beautiful and like, had a great job already in training, and so I just I don't know. I feel like I ran up to you and was like, Oh, my God, Here's my number. Do you wanna hang out?
>> Janelle: She did.
>> Chelsea: And she loved me instead of being like, get the fuck out. You love me, right?
>> Janelle: I did love you. It was an intense friendship.
>> Chelsea: Okay.
>> Brian: So you were as a kid. Where you at risk for, like, stranger danger shit? You're just way too... (laughter)
>> Janelle: Yeah, probably. I am. Like, I trust people and like Like I said before, I have no boundaries. (laughter)
>> Chelsea: I was like, You're cool. Hey. You invited me to your house immediately.
>> Janelle: Probably, I'm sure.
>> Brian: Yes. That's too soon. But I totally understand the switch from the grand writing to like working in the field. Like that would drive me crazy. Just like repetitively begging for money I'd rather work like directly with people. Oh, yes. So you guys met and so how did you guys start the start the series Like how far along in your glamorous friendship?
>> Chelsea: Glamorous? Yeah. So when we were working together at the shelter, we did a few writing related initiatives because I feel like we would like, get together and, like, right and hang out. We started a book club on Saturdays with some of the residents, and Janelle mainly spearheaded that. That was like extra from work, I would say, and that was... she would like, come up with readings and we would have discussions and read with the guys. It was all adult men, and it was kind of this place where we could, like, chat about, like, themes and different ideas. And we did free writing so people like everyone could express themselves and it was really, it was really nice. It was really awesome. And then we also did some writing workshops with our friend Kira, who was working there as well. And then I would say we both got different jobs. I feel like at this point. I did at least. I think I left in 2014.
>> Brian: Were these workshops and like book clubs, were they extracurricular? Or were they part of the job?
>> Chelsea: Extracurricular. We did the Saturday one because it was in Bushwick and we both lived in Greenpoint at the time. So it was, like, pretty quick to, like, get over there on a Saturday. And it was really fun. I don't know. Six months? We didn't do it for that long.
>> Janelle: Yeah, it was. It wasn't too long, but I would say about, like, six months or something like that. Maybe even shorter.
>> Chelsea: What was the one about the fossils that we did?
>> Janelle: That was Breece D'J Pancake with his story Trilobites... I don't know how to pronounce that word.
>> Brian: Explain that a little bit. What about the fossils?
>> Janelle: We we have them read this story called Trilobites.
>> Brian: Is that just like 1000 megabytes or something? (laughs)
>> Janelle: No, it's like a fossil.
>> Chelsea: Close.
>> Janelle: And so the story is kind of about that and about, like, becoming like, sort of feeling like you're becoming a sort of fossil on being tied to a place. And we had them free right about that, and they kind of just ran with it. A lot of people would express things about their lives. A lot of them were formerly incarcerated, so they would talk a little bit about their time in jail or in prison. And so, yeah, we did a free right. And then we discussed the story together and like what it meant to them and kind, all just tied together. Like talking about people's lives and literature.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, and I feel like that type of collaboration like us kind of like working to get like in that way. I think so, Like in I want to say, in the end of 2016 I was doing a reading and like somewhere else, and then happened upon this bar that had a really cute back room and it had this moon, and I don't know, I just had a feeling when I walked in and then I called her and I was like, We should do a reading here. What do you think? Do you want to run a reading series with me? And I think that it kind of probably had started when we were working together and doing those workshops in the book club and just becoming really good friends who could work together really well. And then I saw this I don't know. It was like a moon on a stage. It was a huge wooden moon on a stage in a back room. And they had mood lighting. They had flowers. They had flowers.
>> Brian: Of course.
>> Chelsea: I had that in my bio. Yes, but it was just so lovely there. And so we started. We asked the owner if we could host of reading there and she said, Sure. Great. They've never done a reading. They were super excited. How long did we do it there? End of 2016 until, like, mid 2017?
>> Janelle: Oh, yeah. Yeah, something like that.
>> Chelsea: Who knows the details. They're just all flowing.
>> Brian: How did you guys find writers at first?
>> Janelle: So at first, we the very first reading that we had was all friends that we knew. So I believe that, like Dana Perry, Lauren Hilger, Sarah Rosenthal and Elizabeth Murphy.
>> Brian: Our producers are doing a jut lip nod like, hmm I approve of this. (laughter)
>> Janelle: Yes, they were all, like, just close friends of ours. And we were just like, Hey, you wanna come read for us? And they brought a good crowd and it worked out from there.
>> Brian: That's kind of what reading series rely on. The readers bringing the crowd.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, right. Keeping it in the fam.
>> Janelle: Yeah, but we started out with people who were friends with, and then we kind of branched out from there and like, grew our community to what it is now, which is essentially people that we you've never met or don't like, necessarily know personally that are coming to read for us, which is really nice.
>> Brian: Are you guys doing more solicitation or you guys getting submissions and kind of going through like a slush pile in that hole?
>> Chelsea: We love to solicit. I feel like I solicit all day every day, but it's just very I feel like it's mostly solicitation because we'll go after people that we whose work we love. I sound very aggressive right now. I love it
>> Brian: Yeah, so that's what... the podcast is for you.
>> Chelsea: But going to readings or as Janelle's looking through No Token stuff. She'll read people's work that she likes. Or I'll meet people at readings.
>> Brian: Yeah, it's pretty big boon. Just being able to, like, have access to all those submissions.
>> Chelsea: Yeah. No Token's... It's so beautiful. But we did submissions.
>> Janelle: We did it once.
>> Chelsea: We didn't love the experience, but we might not have marketed it well enough to get a good pile of stuff.
>> Janelle: So it would be open to trying that again.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, at some point, especially now, I feel like we've built up enough of a community where if we post something or tell somebody something, people, they'll tell people about it. Which is really nice.
>> Brian: We're brainstorming right here. On the air. It's beautiful.
>> Chelsea: Thank you for facilitating that.
>> Brian: So do you guys feel this is like, a random question that's popped in my head, but and I'm inspired. I'm feeling very inspired by it. Do you guys feel like you're insiders? Like literary insiders in any way? Because you work at No Tokens.
>> Chelsea: I work in a hospital.
>> Brian: You work in a hospital, you edit and like, you know you do readings. You host a reading series.
>> Janelle: It's an interesting question. I never feel like an insider, like I always feel kind of like on the outside of things.
>> Brian: Yeah. Is that like a spiritual? Is that like a spiritual feeling? Or is that like a like a practical feeling?
>> Janelle: I wouldn't say that it's spiritual. Well, yeah, like partially like, I just don't I don't really feel like I'm in the know or like an inside of some, like, exclusive club, because I don't like the concept of, like, exclusivity.
>> Brian: Neither do we.
>> Janelle: I mean, I would say that like, it's nice to know that there's a world in a community of writers in New York City and it needs to, like, feel like you're a part of that community. But I would say that I try to, always, like, keep in mind that we're always looking for people we always want. Like we don't just want people from the literary community to come to our readings. Like we want everybody to feel welcome.
>> Brian: Yeah, that's kind of how I feel about my writing to, which is kind of a paradox. Even the exclusivity things, that paradox for me because my writing is kind of I feel like it can be difficult at times and I'm being exclusive, you know, So, like, depending on education level or like like literacy, you know? And also just with exclusivity in general, I have a fascination with it. Like, you know, you guys have you guys heard about like, those salons that go on in the city? And they're like they're almost like speakeasies. When I hear about those I'm like, man, that actually sounds really fucking cool and there's 1/2 of me that's like, I want to be there and I'm like, really interested in it. It's the side of me that's inside that it's interested in, like, organized crime and, like, shit like that, like, you know, But then there's also the side of me, that's like, Well, maybe we would have better work out there and more of the better work out there if it wasn't this kind of like pyramid scheme or like pyramid structure, whatever you wanna call it, you know?
>> Janelle: It's interesting. I mean, like, even like growing up, like I always have always written, and I've always been a reader and, like I always wanted to be like a writer. But I have a lot of trouble like calling myself that. And I have a lot of trouble, like admitting or like, feeling like I'm part of some circle of writers, like it's hard for me to place myself inside of that. So even though I feel like I've come to know like the more we're in this community, the more like names start to look familiar and things like that I still don't feel like I don't know. It's hard for me to, like, label myself that.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, I mean, similarly, I don't have an MFA or a book or anything like that.
>> Brian: But you did go to Maryland. And you did study psychology just like I did.
>> Chelsea: Yes, it was really fun when we did that.
>> Brian: So if I can publish a book at Animal Riot then so can you (laughs)
>> Chelsea: It was fun when we figured that out. But I think I felt like I couldn't. I had trouble identifying as it too for so long. And in 2015 I was in New Orleans in, like, the back of a van and the man who was driving it.
>> Brian: What month?
>> Chelsea: Oh my God. Were you there too?
>> Brian: May.
>> Chelsea: Oh no. It was later in the summer.
>> Brian: That was a bad time for me anyways. Continue. (laughter)
>> Chelsea: So I was in the back of this van in New Orleans. And the man driving it was I don't want... Like he was really challenging me to, like, call myself a writer in a really beautiful way. And so since then I've been trying to.
>> Brian: Like, believe in yourself?
>> Chelsea: Yeah, Yeah. He was like you if you like. And I was like, Okay, sir, think. And I wrote home about him that I love to read a straight, but yes, I don't know, but we really want... I think part of that also has led to us, our reading series. It's free. It's open to everybody. A lot of people who come are not writers. They like love art, and they love community. And they love listening to beautiful writing. They love reading. Maybe, but a lot of them are not writers. And that's really cool that we can create an accessible event where people feel like insiders in something, even if they're not writers too.
>> Brian: Yeah, it's well, yeah. I mean, like, we're all walking paradoxes so like That is a feeling that is important. You know, it's like to make people feel important I think is important. But yeah, I love... I really want to beat this cab driver.
>> Chelsea: He was amazing. He was 20 also.
>> Brian: Really? Well, that's great. That's not my experience in New Orleans. It all my experience in New Orleans was getting blackout drunk and doing stupid shit (laughs)
>> Chelsea: In May of 2015.
>> Brian: That was my MFA celebration. Yeah, I agree with you guys about everything you just said. I want to ask Janelle, specifically because you brought this up. But is there a place that you could get to or like, a thing you could accomplish that would make you feel like Okay, I'm a writer now. Or they Or do you think it's more personal, like your own like neural, like experience?
>> Janelle: Yeah. I have a feeling it's more personal. I mean, like, I think I think to myself that oh, when I publish a book like, I'll feel like I'm a writer. But I also said that back when I was like, Oh, if I get published on a couple of different sites or with a few journals, I'll feel like a writer and then I still like Don't. So I have a funny feeling. Like even if I did publish a book, I'd still be like in the really writer like You are, but yeah, I mean, I think it's just I don't know if it becomes such a thing. You know what I'm saying? Like it becomes like, not just this idea of like you just writing like this simplistic thing, which it is sort of is in a away. But it becomes like this scene, I guess, is what I like is what I like resist against a little bit.
>> Brian: Are you talking about kind of like the appearances?
>> Janelle: The appearance of being a writer, like being able to say you're a writer and, like, just like the clout that sort of like comes with that?
>> Brian: Like I it's almost like we're reliving like high school all the time. You know that that old trope if we're gonna get it on it's a cliche, but like, you know, we are on a literary podcast I guess. But you know, like how they say, like, we're constantly like, reliving like our high school experience or something. So, it's like being like getting to that point. It's like like I'm in high school. I was I was like a three sport athlete, and then I got serious performance anxiety, and that was like, really the marker of like when my depression and anxiety like really just like strung me. So like, I do think in a way, there's a part of me that's writing to compensate for that, Like to like, kind of like maybe prove something about like, Oh, I can do something that I couldn't do. But yeah, I totally know what you mean. But just like in n a more universal sense, what you just said I do. I think everyone is all is living their writer life off the page very differently than the living on the page. It's like there is that there is a a genuineness or integrity to like the actual work. But once you step outside of the room, then everyone's talking about what they've written. Where they've published and like all that kind of stuff and things really hard to manage. And one of the reasons I bring it up because we've done episodes like in other cities and stuff, people that feel disconnected from New York because we're kind of... we are like and the other people we are the insiders, you know? So I think what you guys are doing is really important, just like and we're kind of just trying to promote it elsewhere. More reading series in other cities, like, you know. So you guys have any plans, toe? Because you guys are moving venues. And you know, not just with the reading. series, like in your personal lives. Like with writing. Because Chelsea, you're also an editor and career coach, right?
>> Chelsea: Yeah. So I work for a hospital.
>> Brian: Yeah. You take care of a lot of plants.
>> Chelsea: Yeah. I take care of a lot of plants people. So do we have plans in life?
>> Brian: Yes.
>> Chelsea: Okay, we have plans in life, but I think for our reading series first we're excited to move into a new space called Cantina Cumbancha and it's so beautiful and the owners are lovely.
>> Brian: That sounds like a place where I could get like, uh, have you guys ever had, like, a like a Mexican white Russian? I know that sounds completely oxymoronic.
>> Chelsea: I know what you're talking about and they can definitely do that for you
>> Brian: With horchata milk. Sorry, continue.
>> Chelsea: So come on July 18th from 7 to 9 p.m. and drink it.
>> Brian: Oh, yeah. But you don't know if they have it yet.
>> Chelsea: I feel like I might help you.
>> Brian: You know what you just did? You made me want to go even more, because now I really want to find out.
>> Chelsea: I created suspense. Yeah, we're really excited about our new venue because the owners really support, like, the arts community, and they're just excited to have poems and stories and everything happening in there. So that's gonna be great. And the food was delicious and the drinks are good and they probably have what you want to make sure they get doable. And then I think eventually we want to think like play with the idea of fundraisers in some way. So we'll see kind of how that plays out. We still want everything to be free and open to everybody. But maybe there will be an option to donate what you wish to a specific cause. We have themes right now for all of our readings. So maybe we'll have, like, a theme tied with, like, a cause that we care about.
>> Brian: Can I nominate a theme?
>> Chelsea: Sure.
>> Brian: Roaring twenties.
>> Janelle: Oh, I like that.
>> Brian: Yeah, like, make it like a little speakeasy or something. Yeah, Or or you can, like, turn it into, like, a cubano club where, like, these Americans are like these rich, as Americans are like, taken later yachts down to Cuba to drink legally or some shit.
>> Chelsea: Let's talk.
>> Brian: (laughs) Our producers are just shaking their head right now. That's my problem.
>> Janelle: Imagination is every writer's problem.
>> Brian: But I really like that idea about donations. We have to have a conversation about this now because I don't know if you guys are aware, but we did the reading for Races. It was really successful, actually. So writers are world like pretty giving people. You know, we have We have big hearts, so people will give their money to you. And they trust you to allocate it properly.
>> Chelsea: Yeah. We promise.
>> Janelle: Yeah, I think we're excited. Our passion is always like helping others, and I think, like that comes that comes across them like the work that we've done and also just wanting to, like, bring a piece of that to the reading series.
>> Chelsea: I meant to mention this before, so I'm circling back a little bit, but it's been really cool to have friends of ours who whose work we love, but they don't that maybe they haven't really started getting published yet or getting... it's really cool to, like, have them read for the first time
>> Brian: Because they get to put something on their bio that goes read at the Eclipse reading series.
>> Chelsea: And just the whole experience where, like they have a big audience. We had 50 people recently at our biggest reading, two readings ago.
>> Brian: And they call it emerging writers in our community. That's like, scary as fuck, but it was like, the first time. That's the thing I'm sure, like I remember when I read for the first time? I was like, probably trying to, like, impress people. But I was really terrible at it. Like I remember Katie telling me she's like you. Just you read so monotone and I kind of I kind of still Yeah, Yeah, probably doing it. And, you know, with some you know, someone who has performance anxiety, you know, it's not like transitive property isn't really that hard to solve. It's like, it's a shit show. But yeah, no, I know the past venue that you guys were at or they were They really upset that you moved? Was that a hard conversation?
>> Chelsea: Our first bar closed. That was so sad. We were like, Can we have that moon? And they were like, Sorry.
>> Janelle: We asked for a lot of things like a big thing of ours. If you're trying to start a reading series or like, you are interested, just I don't know, in life in general, I think it's good to, like ask for things like if you just ask, a lot of times like people are very generous and they want it.
>> Brian: They want to help.
>> Janelle: Yeah, They'll help you out. Yeah.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, we're sad. It was naive in South Williamsburg and they closed. And it's, I think it's a sushi restaurant now. But it was off the JMZ and we loved them. And we were very sad when they closed. Rest in peace. But new things. New beginnings.
>> Brian: I'm gonna bring this up again. As a fellow psych student at Maryland, did you take social psych by any chance?
>> Chelsea: Yes. Did you have a youngish guy?
>> Brian: I think so.
>> Chelsea: Did he have a common name?
>> Brian: I don't remember this. I smoked a shit ton in college. Looks like I was constantly high.
>> Chelsea: We overlapped, right?
>> Brian: I think we graduated the same year. So I just remember in that class, like one of the heavier theories was that one of, like, three things that makes people happy. There's, like, the selfish under the spectrum. But then there's, like, the philanthropic end, you know? And so people do want to help. That's why I kind of do the stuff that I do.
>> Chelsea: That's why you're having us here today.
>> Brian: Maybe. Who knows (laughter)
>> Chelsea: You sound so good on the podcasts.
>> Janelle: You speak so well and say such good stuff and give such great examples.
>> Brian: I'm so scared that people think I'm a piece of shit.
>> Janelle: No, you're great. I really feel like the more people I talk to them or everyone's just thinking that about themselves all the time. Everybody's like, Oh, my God, I'm scared, what does everyone else think of me. And literally everyone else is like, Oh, you're great. You're cool. You're good at it.
>> Brian: Yeah, but it's like we forget that people can't see inside our heads. Which, if we could it might be worse. We might actually then think, Wow, you really are a piece of shit. Or we would all understand each other better, and that would be nice. (laughter)
>> Chelsea: I'm just thinking about something I did yesterday that I told Janelle about I, like, gave this place the middle finger after I left it.
>> Brian: Metaphorically or like...?
>> Chelsea: Like I really a double middle fingered.
>> Brian: Beautiful.
>> Chelsea: And then I called her and I was like, It's petty, but it felt so good.
>> Brian: Can you can you tell us?
>> Chelsea: Well, now I can actually feel like I can't. I was just leaving the place that was symbolic of a different time of my life. And I've moved into a new apartment and a new time, So that old place really just... middle finger, you know?
>> Brian: All right, well, we got a little bit of information there. That's like some iceberg theory.
>> Chelsea: I have an iceberg right here. You know the iceberg theory?
>> Brian: I do. Of course. I feel like every writer should know the iceberg theory.
>> Chelsea: Janelle taught me.
>> Brian: Should we explain it? Jenelle, do you want to explain it?
>> Janelle: I don't know if I'm thinking of the same thing.
>> Brian: You guys do what you do, your version, and then we'll do our versions.
>> Janelle: Ok. The iceberg theory is usually that there's more beneath the surface than what you see at the top. That's the basis of it.
>> Brian: And so, in writing, it's like you can infer, like, what's going on beneath, you know? So I really like that. I try to use it a lot.
>> Chelsea: I, like just do it with people. I didn't even think about it for writing. Cool. This is great.
>> Brian: Yeah, I totally use it because I think people want to feel smart when they're reading. So, like, if you can get them to infer stuff, like in, like, you something from before in the story, or like, something like that. Like, I feel like I almost used it to a fault. Like I'm too implicit sometimes, you know, because I think I'm smarter than I am (laughter), but we're actually doing... Do you guys know Monica Lewis? We're gonna do an episode on, like, mental health and, like, substance use and stuff like that. Yeah, because, yeah, I mean, I think especially for writers, like, there's a lot of us, like a lot of us, write because we want, like, need to figure something out. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to that one. She's a writer. And, uh, yeah, she's a poet. She writes some fiction too. She's read at Animal Riot. Yeah, she's great. But one more thing I wanted to ask about the series is because you guys something I'm really interested in. You guys read at the series every time?
>> Chelsea: Yeah.
>> Janelle: Yeah.
>> Brian: How do you guys feel about that? Cause I like I think it's really cool. And I also think it's certainly brave because, like, I would really want to do that myself. But like, speaking of, like self confidence itself, I would be like, I'll be like, Do they want to hear me? Like, you know, I don't know, Like, I've invited all these other people to read, but, like, I like it. I think it's really cool. And like you get you get a consistency like you know, you're gonna show up and you're gonna hear these two people read and like the people that they've invited and you get to know you guys, you know?
>> Chelsea: Yeah, and I always open. And Janelle always closes. So in that works really well, I don't know. I think at first we just wanted to do it, and then it became just a part of it and a really great way. And I think at first I was just like, Oh, do people want to hear us every time? And then I was like, we're in charge. We could do what we want. So it was fun, but I think you were talking. We were talking about this the other day about, like the vulnerability aspect of it where if we're asking other people to be vulnerable, we should also be able to be vulnerable.
>> Janelle: I mean, I think I feel funny about it sometimes, Like I feel like I don't know. It could be a little bit weird because I feel like I'm just doing it like it's like, I don't know. I don't want it to be like this narcissistic like thing. But at the same time, I do feel like if you're going to ask other people to be vulnerable, I am a firm believer that you, especially like in the classroom or in like, it's just in life in general, like you have to be vulnerable with people. And yeah, I think that And the other good thing about it, too, is that it gets us to kind of write new material.
>> Brian: I didn't think about that aspect.
>> Chelsea: It's fun. But every like every reading with it without fail two days before, I'm like, Oh my God, what am I gonna read? Everything I have is terrible. And I'm like me too, and then we pull it together.
>> Brian: That actually really cool. It sounds really hard. One of the reasons I think it's really cool. It's just it just it separates you guys from other reading series and like it's just another variation. You know, I just the only thing I don't like about reading series when they start to feel repetitive. You know, it's like, OK, someone else gets up to read and we all sit and watch them clap at the end of the block, And it's not like I would ever really get sick of that because, like, I love literature but at the same time, like I do think these little things where you just change it up. I think it's cool. I like what you guys are doing.
>> Chelsea: Thanks, yeah, and we try to do like interactive activities every time because we're both trainers by trade. So we do interactive activities with the audience. We've had them write love letters together, like where you pass it around and you could only see the line above you and That's been... we've had, like a bizarre love letter at the What? What did we Oh, we've done the card on the prompts. So we'll cut out like hearts or have index cards or something like that, and we'll write, like, prompts at the top, and people will fill it out and then we'll read. We'll pick them out of like, a glass jar and, like, read them.
>> Brian: And that's kind of an opportunity for people to express themselves but not be vulnerable at the same time, but sort of because, like, you can volunteer. So I wrote that.
>> Janelle: Yeah, exactly. And then we've had people like come up and just, like, read. Everyone participates in, like, weird, interesting ways. Like one time we had somebody come up and read a text exchange with Chelsea that she had and it was bizarre.
>> Chelsea: You can say it. It was a man.
>> Brian: But someone, someone else read it?
>> Janelle: We had one of the audience members come up and read it back and forth with Chelsea as like, just like a conversation.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, he was really good.
>> Brian: Was he chosen at random?
>> Chelsea: Yeah.
>> Brian: That just happened to pick like some all star? Yeah, it was definitely a ringer. I don't believe you.
>> Janelle: I don't know. He's great. Yeah, he was ready to go that night, but that was that was good.
>> Brian: Was that was that recorded anywhere? I really want to see that.
>> Janelle: No, We just started, like, recording our series. What is it through?
>> Chelsea: Milligrams.
>> Janelle: Yeah, they're doing like, a recording of, like, different reading. series around New York they are driving them.
>> Brian: Oh, shit. Do we know about this producer's?
>> Chelsea: Uh, yeah, James from the Poetry Project does it.
>> Brian: Interesting. Yeah. We gotta check that out. Milligrams. Before you guys read and this is like kind of like a like a selfish tangent. But because you went to Maryland as well, I just submitted to, like, this other podcast, like a really short story about me and my best friend, Ben. We we took a class together on experimental design, and so you were at the final project. Was to write an entire explain real experiment and like make up the results and like you know, everything and so and, you know, being the little shits that we were, we didn't do it until the night before and it's like a 40 page like technical like it's not just 40 pages, pages of technical prose. It's like a lot of like, you know, two by two, like factorial designs. And like all the shit and like I do... we write it, we finish it all and then I pull my flash drive without saving it. And he just looks at me and he goes like, because he's gonna go like med school and stuff after this. So he's like, This can not be done. He's like, he's like, You got to do this and I'm just like, all right, that's it. So I sit down and I just like that's like bang it out again because, like, you know, you know, when you write something, you kind of remember, you know, and it took so long was terrible. Anyway, I had I make we might have to cut that cause like I might have, like, fucked my chances of getting on that podcast. They probably won't listen to this, but yeah, let's do it. Let's do a reading. We kind of I don't know if we like purposely don't prepare our guests for this at this point like so we can trick you guys into doing it. (laughter) You always do it anyway.
>> Janelle: I just got two pieces published or their being published on Cracked. So maybe I'll read one of those.
>> Chelsea: I'm gonna read two short pieces that I would like manifest being published and I'm finding out it's They are getting published this month.
>> Brian: It sounds like you were just casting spell. I will manifest this into being published.
>> Chelsea: I will just say it quick, but it's my favorite poet of all time, and it's his press is doing Broadsides, and I really want him to choose one of my poems.
>> Brian: Wait, who is this? You can't say?
>> Chelsea: I don't know how much I should say.
>> Brian: Because I know a poet who does a series and maybe a pressed to that does Broadsides or has done one Broadside. They do a different they do a different, like, sort of...
>> Chelsea: Just say it.
>> Brian: George Kovalenko.
>> Chelsea: No, but that's cool. I'm just gonna read these poems, and they're gonna listen and be like, You know what? We were gonna choose you anyway.
>> Brian: Oh, great. But I mean, after our 300,000,000 listeners hear this, the world's just popping off.
>> Janelle: You start because you always open. I always close.
>> Chelsea: Okay, this is called "We Have All Cried for Discontinued Lipstick".
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>> Chelsea: Please choose me. (laughter)
>> Brian: I like that choice of discontinued because it's like somewhere between, like finished and just, like dislike discarded before finished. I like that. I like the title choice.
>> Chelsea: Thank you. The lipstick I'm wearing right now is the one that it's that it's after.
>> Brian: Yeah, cool.
>> Chelsea: It's really, everyone's cried over discontinued lipstick at some point. I would say, Or maybe it was me.
>> Brian: Another jut lipped general affirmation from our producers.
>> Chelsea: I like that. That's a title.
>> Janelle: Are you going?
>> Chelsea: You go. We'll go back and forth.
>> Janelle: Let's do, uh, like I said, The Crab picked it up, and it's called "Elise".
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Check out Janelle’s work in Issue 6 of Crab Fat Magazine (Page 7: https://www.crabfatmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/CFM-Issue-6.pdf)
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>> Brian: I'm really curious, does that fall in line with most of your stuff? Like that kind of tone eyes is that once like hilarious but like right beneath that surface, it's, you know, kind of like terrifying and said.
>> Janelle: Yeah, I would say for the most part. A lot of I like to mix like balance humor out with some seriousness or level because I feel like that's life. It is the human condition.
>> Brian: Yeah. And yeah, you, I'll let it slide. But you totally pandered with that white Russian reference right there. (laughter)
>> Chelsea: This is called "Wednesdays".
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>> Brian: Woah. I love it. You just displayed a lot of iceberg theory right there.
>> Chelsea: Thanks. It's really, like, tattooed on my body.
>> Brian: It's just funny because you said you'd never really applied it here. You like, Thought to apply it to... Yeah, I mean, like, a soon as you bring up the father and like, and those questions that, like she asks, it's just like referring to something we don't really know, but we can infer. I like that a lot.
>> Chelsea: Thanks.
>> Brian: Do you want to read one more thing?
>> Janelle: Yeah, I'll read one more.
>> Brian: We got to even it out.
>> Janelle: I'm gonna do "Cheaper Cuts", actually. It's about my grandmother. I write about her a lot.
>> Brian: This is one for Katie. We love Katie's gangie. Shout out the game. She was on this podcast.
>> Janelle: Awesome. I love that. So "Cheaper Cuts"
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>> Brian: Oh, my God. I want to meet the shit out of your grandma right now.
>> Janelle: She was great.
>> Brian: Yeah, that was great.
>> Chelsea: Janelle writes a lot about family and different people.
>> Brian: Another like paragraph in the bios I saw it was like a pointed statement like and goes home to visit her family very often. So it sounds like it's your family's really important to you.
>> Janelle: Yeah, they are, and they're characters danger very much in my work and just kind of that's also have thinking about family and like what that means and growing up and how that, like childhood has affected me as an adult.
>> Chelsea: Our moms come to the readings often, too. So I guess that's also why we read, because our moms are coming.
>> Brian: That's really yeah, that's so cute. They're gonna be here this coming Thursday?
>> Chelsea: My mom will be. Is your mom?
>> Janelle: Probably not. She's thinking about it.
>> Brian: Brian Birnbaum, Brian Stephen Birnbaum requests her presence.
>> Janelle: I will. I'll see if we can sway her.
>> Chelsea: But her mom will be there. And Janelle will be reading like stories about her mom getting scammed by a scam artist. And it's a and her mom's just like it's true. It's all true.
>> Brian: That sounds that sounds hilarious. Okay, so, yeah, we're getting close to the end, so I want to ask one more. One more question. I'll just phrase it like this. What is the craziest thing that's happened at your series because it sounds like you guys leave a lot of room for shenanigans. Like letting people right on notecards and like making you really loud shit like, you know, Or maybe if everyone's just well behaved, I don't know.
>> Chelsea: I mean people, they I guess I feel like they've gotten a little wild with the prompts and I think the craziest thing was when we fit, like, 50 people into a small bar back room in Bed Stuy that was really meant to seat 20. But I, like, could get 30 and their creatively seating. But we had, like, 50 people jammed in there. It was the coldest night in February. It was the coldest night of the year. It was in this February on and people the AC broke And so people were dripping sweat. They ran out of empanadas immediately.
>> Brian: They had in the AC because it was so crowded? Holy shit.
>> Chelsea: And it was like people were sweating.
>> Janelle: The windows were fogged.
>> Chelsea: Everyone was sitting on the floor. And it was just lovely. And everyone had the best time, and everyone was dripping sweat and it was great and we just So I guess that was a little bit.
>> Janelle: That was a little crazy. I've made my anxiety go through the roof.
>> Brian: Yeah, I have some really fucked up themes in mind. But what was the actual?
>> Chelsea: Strangelove. It was our second annual Anti Valentine's Day, I guess, Party reading popular and it was called Strangelove. And so that was where we wrote the love letter together on. We had different. What's the weirdest thing you've done for love? A lot of that stuff. I can't believe I used to love. Somebody said John Mayer, valid.
>> Janelle: One thing that you would write a love letter to.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, what did people say?
>> Janelle: I had pictures of a bunch of them. I don't remember.
>> Chelsea: Somebody said boobs, but that's not creative.
>> Janelle: Nobody said boobs. I think you said...
>> Chelsea: I think somebody drew boobs.
>> Brian: You just had to hold it up? That's kind of fitting, though. I mean Strangelove, everyone's getting shoved in together.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, actually, yeah.
>> Brian: I can see the serendipity if we're searching for it.
>> Chelsea: So what's gonna happen at Hot Flash? That's next Thursday.
>> Brian: But oh wait, this will air after that one on 7/18 (laughter). I do this every time when Katie gets me to repeat something... Oh, you're not cutting this out? No. Do you know when the next one will be after the 7/18?
>> Chelsea: Well, it's gonna be in September, and we're gonna be featuring you.
>> Brian: Oh, yes. Whoa.
>> Chelsea: We just don't have a date yet.
>> Brian: Oh shit. I just got a gift.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, we talked about Yeah, it's okay.
>> Brian: I'm very excited.
>> Chelsea: Excited, but it's going to be in September. We're still thinking about the theme, but we're thinking something around, like, breaking through in some way. And that's also gonna be the reading where we've partnered through the Reading series of New York Collective. We partnered with the poetry project on Pen America to feature the work of an incarcerated writer.
>> Brian: Oh, that's really cool. Because if I read that night, I just joined the pennant Pen America Prison writing program. Eclipse reading series. Oh, well, we're also doing that at Animal Riot. (laughter). So you guys don't know what, exactly what today is. The launch party will be on the 15th which is my birthday.
>> Chelsea: We're gonna plan around you and the Brooklyn Book Festival. You're welcome.
>> Brian: That's beautiful, but that But that's really cool. So we'll both do something with incarcerated writers. Yes, for September. That's cool. Have you guys ever heard of... I'm gonna do it again. Have you guys ever heard of Sergio De La Pava? He's like one of my all time favorite writers. Him and his wife are like District Attorney's, their defense lawyers, public defense lawyers and their benevolence is like unlimited. And they've helped us with so much. And they kind of like they Sergio came on and did a prison writing episode up like part two of like, we had a two part series and Caits Meissner. That's what we were talking about before. She's the one who hooked me up with the mentor program and everything, but yeah, they're definitely look them up. They're incredible people. But yeah, thanks for working around us. I honestly had no, like, I knew we were talking about it.
>> Janelle: It's happening. So hopefully you're on board.
>> Brian: No, I'm definitely on board.
>> Chelsea: And we want to do it before I think maybe before Brooklyn Book Festival stuff.
>> Brian: Okay, so speaking of that, Katie has been trying to get together a prose Festival at Sarah Lawrence. That's like her pet project. She's talking to the director of the MFA program there.
>> Chelsea: We will come.
>> Brian: We're pretty close to an hour.
>> Janelle: Yeah, we appreciate it.
>> Chelsea: Yeah, we love you guys been. I think it's just been great to meet. I love going to stuff in meeting awesome writer people. I know I met you guys and I asked Katie to come to coffee with me, and we said we met in the park. It was she was so generous and was like, I'll connect you here. Let me send you this, like, come do the podcast, like all this stuff. So it's just really it's It's like an honor to be a part of the writing community here. Because everyone is so warm and loving and generous, and it's really...
>> Brian: Well, it's an honor to have you. Thanks for coming. Where can we find your work and stuff about the series? This is your chance to speak to the 300,000,000 followers that we have.
>> Janelle: Yeah, so we're on Facebook at Eclipsed Reading Series. And we're also on Instagram at Eclipsed Reading Series.
>> Chelsea: And it's Eclipsed past tense.
>> Brian: And, uh, do you guys have because you said your site was defunct.
>> Brian: So, like you, you can go to Chelsea Fonden dot com. I'll update it soon. So you can see things.
>> Janelle: If you Google my name it usually comes up. That's the easiest way. If you want to find, like, other work that I've read it is something like that.
>> Chelsea: Let's make a website for both of us.
>> Janelle: Okay.
>> Chelsea: Cool. So you can look that up too soon.
>> Brian: We just recorded it. So now you have to,
>> Chelsea: Yes, and I have to get those poems that got said tonight has to happen.
>> Brian: Okay, that's it for today's episode. If you like what you heard, please subscribe in review on whichever platform you're listening. You can get in touch with us on Twitter, Facebook & Instagram @AnimalRiotPress or through our website animalriotpress.com. This has been the 28th episode of the Animal Riot Podcast with me, your host Brian Birnbaum and featuring Janelle Greco and Chelsea Fonden in and were produced by Katie Rainey, without whom we would be merely three of Shakespeare's 1000 monkeys banging on a typewriter. And that's it. Your first podcast ever (cheers).